@sao said in Bannings:

bizarre internal metrics that banned @Narson for saying basically the same thing as @Meg who they rescinded the ban on, while simultaneously deciding that Ghost is a part of the community they want to keep but not @Roz or @tsar

The cynic in me suggests it is all a shitty attempt at Crisis Management PR. Unban Meg because she set up the discord where people discussed. Look how kind and magnanimous they are. Ghost because, look, they even forgave one of M**ing’s most persistent haemorrhoids.

Meg and Farfalla shouldn’t have been banned in the first place, I’m not even sure Ghost should have been - it all stems from those initial bad decisions. But I’m fairly sure I was less of a dick than Ghost. I just asked why Arkandel wasn’t in trouble for posting after the ‘Don’t post’ second warning when others were. I’d guess they still don’t have an answer beyond ‘We are inconsistent and unethical, and were embarrassed at how inconsistent and unethical we were being’. Oh well, nothing of value was lost. I wasn’t a huge contributor to MSB. And we have a place where admins haven’t had to warn other admins not to blame the victims of sexual assault. Which is nice.

Watching your friends depart a game, but not yet wanting to finish your own stories, but also not knowing if you have a game left in you after this so whether you’ll get to RP with them again.

@Pavel said in Bannings:

@Rucket said in Bannings:

obligatory fuck ghost and yes let us shun him.

While I appreciate the sentiment, if he does turn up here he’ll be as welcome as the rest of us, unless and until he does something against our rules. The same with anyone else.

Just for the record, I do actually disagree with this. It used to be my stance. ‘oh they haven’t done anything /here/’ and that I thought was totally fair. But it also enables access for abusive people into spaces. Which isn’t to say I think people should be instabanned, much as that might make us feel momentarily better, but I think past behaviour should absolutely be taken into consideration. If someone with hugely problematic behaviour elsewhere turns up, and is given a chance, and shows that same behaviour I don’t think we should pretend that this is their first offense etc.

@Jennkryst I still really wouldn’t encourage anyone to post there. I really don’t want them to feel they have to come up with new bullshit to justify themselves. So far those banned are terrorists, were harassing people in DMs and various other things - I’d rather we stop before we are accused of the JFK assassination.

People have made their choices on what they will tolerate in a community, and further posts are convincing no one.

As the old ‘Those who are not welcome were those engaging in personal attacks’ line has been trotted out again, let’s actually look at what happened.

So. The bannings started after Gany’s post of 7:31pm on the 5th of May.

The first people to post was Karmabum stating they were not breaking any rules, and Gany should go back to pretending this isn’t happening. Result? Ban

Second is Snackness saying Karmabum was accurate and that she isn’t sorry for posting, as she isn’t in secondary school. Result? Ban

Tsar says it is obvious Gany doesn’t want convo, so why not lock the thread rather than ban people, critiqued Gany’s tone and suggested she step. away. Result? Ban

Arkandel posts mild criticism of Derp’s ability to admit he is wrong, and asked for clarification on points. Result? Not banned.

Meg posts that people didn’t deserve this, and begs Gany to unban and lock thread. Result? Ban. Later reversed.

Third-Eyed Crow suggests Anglo Saxon fornication to Gany. Result? Banned (Note: The first real “personal attack”)

Narson, the evil dipshit, states they are confused on why Arkandel isn’t banned for the fourth post after no talking. Result? Banned.

Sahin asks ‘Why?’ and posts a cat GIF. Result? Warning to ‘Don’t. Just Don’t’.

Arkandel posts asking what did he do in response to Narson. Result? Gany offers to PM with him.

Gany posts to Sahin and Arkandel.

Ifrit posts critiques Gany’s ‘Emotionless Cat Lawyer Boy’ persona, and suggests she has destroyed 10 years of community by not just stepping back, he then says goodbye. Result? Banned

Bear_Necessities repeats Third-Eyed Crow’s offer. Result? Nothing at this point (Note: Arguably the second real “Personal attack”)

Flyrannosaurus posts a gif of an M60 firing out of a helicopter. Resault? Nothing

Bear states they weren’t silenced and for Gany to stop and reverse bans. Result? Banned

Sahin says they won’t stop and asks for ban. Result? Banned.

DeletedUser posts gif of mass slapping. Result? Nothing

Herja points out the hypocrisy in this action compared to Derp situation, and states Gany looks like a clown. Result? Ban

Prism states that they’d rather be banned than hang around with who is left. Result? Banned

Scar states Gany is unhinged. Result? Banned but then reversed.

Coin states ‘message received’. Result? Banned but reversed without comment and removed from even original banned list.

Groth asks if this is how it ends. Result? Nothing

Hellfrog posts a GIF asking what in tarnation. Result? Nothing

Selira says Gany has killed the board. Result? Nothing

Ghost posts a question mark, then says the baord is getting better from bannings in a second post. After a while he posts two more times, after another Gany ask to stop posting. Result? Finally banned. Then reversed.

3543thrh67 posts that Gany is surprised. Result? Nothing

Cobalt posts asking Gany to take a cool off. Result? Gany states she won’t ban Cobalt for it.

ILuvGrumpyCat posts pointing out Ghost’s problematic history, and also addresses their disappointment in Gany’s choices. States she can go ahead and ban them. Result? Banned

OldFrightful says just lock the thread. Result? Nothing

Roz posts that Gany has degraded her authority, and cross links to the Macha/Farfalla logs. Result? Banned

Now. When it comes to personal attacks, the more clear are Scar, Third-Eyed and Bear-Necessities. Of those, Scar’s ban is reversed and Bear has to post a second time in order to get banned. The challenge to authority, the questioning of it, rather than the personal attack is what gets the ban. And I’d argue that is the more obvious common denominator there. And in terms of whether bans got reversed, several of those who were banned (Like Coin), Gany stated her own feelings that these were the hard ones. So friendship matters more in not being excluded (kinda…well…what’s the term? Clique behaviour?).

So no, those that are unwelcome on MSB aren’t those who engaged in personal attacks. It is those that asked questions of an admin who admits their behaviour could be reasonably described as unhinged (hence the reversal of Scar’s ban for the unhinged personal attack). Several of those who did engage in personal attacks or expressed glee at the bannings etc didn’t even get a warning. Again, suggesting that standards were relaxed for those supporting the admin position even if their behaviour mirrored or was worse than those being banned.

Just going to say, as the one who got banned for asking why @Arkandel didn’t get banned when the beam of light that is @Snackness did, I absolutely don’t think any of that is on Arkandel and people shouldn’t even jokingly put him in the middle. As Ark says, we all know why, and as Karma says, we know why some bans weren’t lifted.

In the choice between my friendship with @Roz and @Tez (and the occasional arguments we have) or being able to post on a place that no longer has anyone I really care about on it, I know where I am and while it hurts to be excluded and lied about, I’m quite content and people don’t need to fret.

I mean, I’ve put hard work into getting Tez to understand Narsonese, so when I go ‘Not Alfred…damn it. Isaacs. Moon fellow. Jason!’ they know who I mean.

@Zephyr The ‘stayed staffing in place that was bad and had real ethical dodginess thinking I could help or do good in some way’ club is one with a wide and varied membership (Thinking of you SerenityMUSH and Firan), Some of the best people I know have made that mistake, it doesn’t make you feel good, but, yeah.

Sorry to see Cujo never changed, that is really…sad in so many ways. 20+ years is a long time. I guess I should go read my own forum signature again.

I should probably do this, but I hope you know I hate every moment of it with my British heart.

I’ve already said my thanks to @Rathenhope but, really, he has been an absolute delight to get to know and represent some very important people at my wedding, and provide some wise council. He is just a thoroughly decent chap.

You know, I have had some disagreements with @Roz and @sao over random things, and I honestly can’t remember them or think they are that important. Oddly enough since they became friends we have been accused of being in a clique less, but I really value the views they have on life, and the insight they provide. It may seem odd to put them together, but actually they often approach things from different styles that I find amazing when put together in thinking about issues - I do struggle sometimes to think about the ‘people’ side of things. And they help me self regulate in some ways, and also never judge me too much when I don’t.

Which I guess brings us on to @Tez. Tez is someone super special, even if of course I’ll never tell her (mostly because she can’t hear me from down there). Tez is incredibly kind, but also so aware of people’s needs and sensitivities. I’ve never known someone so genuinely interested in what other people have going on, and how to make things better.

I guess that brings us on to @moo and Pax. The cool elder gods of nerdom. They are always so wise, so kind, so willing to lead by example into what being a good person is. Their patience to help others, to invite them onto their sofa - they are good people, and it is truly a humbling thing to call them friends. Timezones mean we never get to spend as much time chatting as I like, but I truly value every moment playing together.

@Yam and her Root Cellar Gang are just great - they run around and cause goblin chaos with me in a nice chill way. But also, Yam is such an amazing artist. Like, seriously amazing. She has more talent in a finger than is in my entire body, and if the world isn’t kinder to her, I will judge it.

Which also brings up @crawfish, who is a fantastic artist as well and has been very patient as an admin too. Really, the joy she has brought to people, including me, with her art is amazing. To the point that on my wall there are three things. My PhD and her art next to it.

The other bit of art is from @WhiteRaven - another amazing artist, a good friend and someone who I’m glad to have spoken to again in recent weeks after a while of distance. Such a kind person, who so embraces experiences and other cultures, and has such an inquisitive - and sharp - mind. Really has no limit.

@Apos For creating a place like Arx, and for having the story creativity to pull it off. There is real skill in how strands are pulled together, and everything really has worked.

@hellfrog My cool 30s friend. HF (and Puffin!) are great people who are just a delight to know. Puffin is a defender of all things worthy of defending, and HF is too in her own way. Yeah, she will get in a frog-with-a-knife fight with anyone who comes at her, but she is also so self reflective. No-one who has known HF for any amount of time can have any doubt that she is fantastic, creative and talented.

There are so many others I would mention - @Meg @farfalla @tsar - who I have gotten to know in the pandemic and who have been fantastic. Not because we always agree, but because we can disagree while respecting each others intents and aims. Because you are good people, and make me smile. And old friends - like @icanbeyourmuse or @Tributary - who I have got to RP with again in recent months and who have always been reliable and put up with my zany antics through the years. And shared many dog and cat pictures.

The final huzzah though is to @Snackness - who is such a lovely person to have been in an RP group with, and I will genuinely never forget threatening to tip over tables with her in very serious meetings. I am always sad when life takes Snackness away from the group, always so glad when it brings her back - and I really must do more to RP. The other is another part of that era of Faith family, and it is @Pyrephox. Pyre is a real genius, though Pyre will now deny that. They are so smart, so insightful, and so competent. They do great things, and RP well, and are always calm even when they don’t want to be. Pyre is the person I often wish I could be.

ETA: OK, I knew I’d forget people. And one of them is @Smile - who I’ve chatted to a lot and I’d like to think sometimes am helpful to. Despite their weird love of Zenos, they are a good person and should perhaps be a bit kinder to themselves than they are.

@SpaceKhomeini said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:

Also, Cujo is a fucking herb

I know people sometimes have strong views on coriander, but dang. It’s just there trying to make our soups and curries better, it doesn’t deserve this.

@lordbelh said in Bannings:

But I don’t think they were out to hurt people.

Whether this was true is debatable, but that they are out to hurt people now isn’t. Because there isn’t a way in which the lies they now give can be justified as necessary. They are risible lies, designed only to impugn and libel in service of self-justification.

Honestly, of some I expected it - but there are one or two who were there, who post in support of this, who were among those I counted as friends. Who I spoke up for, and tried to find space for, who I offered time and effort in building story with. And more fool me. That people I don’t really regard as worth much consideration are lying about me is annoying, but I’ve had worse from worse people. That people whom you did have a connection with endorse it? That is truly hurtful.

@kalakh said in Bannings:

The way you’re behaving toward anyone offering any substantial criticism is fucking absurd (do forgive me, I used the bad no-no word).

Sorry, there was a typo in the order form, @hellfrog

The haphazard and bizzare approach kind of confirms everything I’ve been thinking about Gany and Derp. I look forward to them repeating their new official truths and whatever nonsense they claim is ethics into their echo chamber. And well, echoes always work better in empty spaces I guess.

@lordbelh Some of us didn’t even get to say fuck you.

I’m permabanned for:

@Herja said in Bannings:

Love having my ethics called into question when I am unable to defend myself. They are doing great with this kinder, gentler version of MSB.

An ethics lesson from Gany and Derp is a bit like a civics lesson from Rudy Giuliani. Unnecessary, unwanted and hilarious.

@kalakh I mean, you are talking about someone who was told that if he wanted to stop being accused of apologising for abusers he should stop apologising for abusers. That person was…

checks notes

Oh, the person that hired him onto staff the board.

Just for the unbearable assclowns in the back, it isn’t leaving people alone if you keep lying about them.

@Kestrel said in Bannings:

There are actually a fuckton of literal fascists in this hobby;

There are fascists in a lot of places, alas. Fascists in gaming is an interesting area people are working on, but the far right were early adopters of online spaces (including back in the BBS days). Their methods will only ever get a small percentage of the population, but if you have so many people you can access, you can get to a much greater proportion of that small number and…well.

Then you cram them in a U-Haul and try to commit a hate crime at a pride event.

ETA: Umberto Eco’s ur-Fascism is a good starting place, but I’d really recommend Griffin’s work and other developments from the New Consensus and the cultural turn in fascist studies (Though of course accepting that some of the cultural understanding really goes back to the 1970s, but that fascist studies really is a more modern emergence as a scholarly field, so that’s when those older studies got really picked up and used)

@Testament said in Macha Awareness (And Unappreciation) thread:

@kalakh said in Macha Awareness (And Unappreciation) thread:

Ghost: Here are some wild ass accusations I’m trying to disguise as Just Asking Questions, my receipts are “bitches be crazy” and “my ass”.

Ghost, the Tucker Carlson of the mush community.

Eh. Tucker Carlson has an audience and influence. Ghost is more some guy vaguely near Q-Anon shaman with his iphone out pretending that makes him a journalist.