Bannings

[MisterBoring]

Well, I’m reducing my MSB activity to lurking now. Gany just basically said that the only person who needed to be apologized to on MSB for what happened was Derp.

[sao]

@MisterBoring Wildly myopic.

[Meg]

I deserve an apology. Ganymede is absolutely wrong. I did nothing to break her imaginary rules after she implemented each.

And I will deserve an apology from Tinuviel-Pavel when I get the first ban from this forum too!

[Pavel]

@Meg said in Bannings:

And I will deserve an apology from Tinuviel-Pavel when I get the first ban from this forum too!

When hell freezes over.

[Tributary]

@Roz said in Bannings:

@Jennkryst said in Bannings:

@Meg ESPECIALLY since they are still likely locked and invisible to anyone who wants to investigate just what the fuck happened.

It actually looks like the Hog Pit has been reopened even for folks without logins.

When I asked Ganymede for a copy of the database to preserve for posterity, she refused, insisting that MSB was fine and she had it covered. (I presume so that I did not set up a ‘competing’ MSB somewhere.)

I said, “Okay, well. Can you just set the Hog Pit readable so that people do not require accounts to see it? That way, the history is all there for reference.” And she conceded that this was an acceptable compromise.

[Roz]

@Tributary said in Bannings:

@Roz said in Bannings:

@Jennkryst said in Bannings:

@Meg ESPECIALLY since they are still likely locked and invisible to anyone who wants to investigate just what the fuck happened.

It actually looks like the Hog Pit has been reopened even for folks without logins.

When I asked Ganymede for a copy of the database to preserve for posterity, she refused, insisting that MSB was fine and she had it covered. (I presume so that I did not set up a ‘competing’ MSB somewhere.)

I said, “Okay, well. Can you just set the Hog Pit readable so that people do not require accounts to see it? That way, the history is all there for reference.” And she conceded that this was an acceptable compromise.

I actually think that having a Hog Pit type of area as opt-out rather than opt-in is pretty reasonable. I respect that BMD made the choice it did, but I think I mentioned it at some point in the early talk that it’d be nice to have the section just open and let people use the built-in features to ignore the category or whatnot.

[Tez]

@Roz said in Bannings:

I actually think that having a Hog Pit type of area as opt-out rather than opt-in is pretty reasonable. I respect that BMD made the choice it did, but I think I mentioned it at some point in the early talk that it’d be nice to have the section just open and let people use the built-in features to ignore the category or whatnot.

I went through our logs to see if I could find WHY we decided that, and it’s more that we just kind of … took it as given. I do know that it was also on the back of the politics section on MSB becoming visible in a bit of a shocking bit of unwelcome, which likely influenced the desire to specifically have unpleasant things be opt in.

I think that if the community had a strong desire and a strong reason to have it be opt out instead of opt in that it would be worth hearing.

I WANT A LIST OF PROS AND CONS.

[Selira]

Honestly, the point of “let people come and see on their own if people are talking shit about them rather than jumping through hoops” is really solid to me, and fits with the motions for transparency. It will make it feel less like a secret club and more of an open part of the community.

[farfalla]

Pro: it’s really confusing to find if you don’t know how.
Pro: we’re all adults who can control our own choices on what to read.

[KarmaBum]

How hard is it to make these changes?

If we try opt-out for a month and find that people are like WHOA THERE DO NOT WANT, would it be difficult to flip it back to opt-in?

[Tez]

@KarmaBum No, super doable. I am in favor of trying new things and if it doesn’t work trying something else. I’d like to give it a few hours to see if anyone chimes in with an OH GOD NO PLS NO but otherwise it seems like something we can discuss.

[Roz]

@Tez said in Bannings:

@Roz said in Bannings:

I actually think that having a Hog Pit type of area as opt-out rather than opt-in is pretty reasonable. I respect that BMD made the choice it did, but I think I mentioned it at some point in the early talk that it’d be nice to have the section just open and let people use the built-in features to ignore the category or whatnot.

I went through our logs to see if I could find WHY we decided that, and it’s more that we just kind of … took it as given. I do know that it was also on the back of the politics section on MSB becoming visible in a bit of a shocking bit of unwelcome, which likely influenced the desire to specifically have unpleasant things be opt in.

I think that if the community had a strong desire and a strong reason to have it be opt out instead of opt in that it would be worth hearing.

I WANT A LIST OF PROS AND CONS.

I think there’s a fundamental difference between something like the Politics board and something like a Hog Pit-esque area: politics are unpleasant in a general “this is stressful RL stuff” way. Hog Pit-esque area will often have personally relevant stuff for people, including potentially posts about themselves.

Anywho I generally agree with the pros Selira and Farfalla have listed.

[Tat]

@Selira said in Bannings:

Honestly, the point of “let people come and see on their own if people are talking shit about them rather than jumping through hoops” is really solid to me, and fits with the motions for transparency. It will make it feel less like a secret club and more of an open part of the community.

I agree with this. I’d never really thought about people needing to jump through hoops if someone said ‘they’re talking about you/this situation’ and they wanted to check in, but I think it’s a fair issue.

It might also do the section some good to know that things posted there are automatically publicly visible. Maybe. Possibly.

[Tez]

The mod squad is split on it – Pyre and I generally prefer opt-in, Pavel and Tsar generally prefer opt-out – but neither Pyre and I feel strongly on that, and Pavel doesn’t feel strong either way.

SO. As you can see, a lot of strong opinions.

Again, giving it a bit for someone to blitz through like NO AND HERE IS WHY, but otherwise I’ll make this change tonight. At some point.

[farfalla]

@Tat Having recently been the subject of discussion in hogpit, where I was unable to see it, I think the transparency is a really good argument. Knowing you’re being talked about somewhere but not being able to even see it is rough.

[farfalla]

@Tez What are your reasons for preferring opt-in?

[Tez]

@farfalla I wouldn’t want someone tripping over something they didn’t want to read without making the choice to read it.

[sao]

I used to hold the position that it should be opt in because of the unsightly warts argument I made myself but I actually have changed my mind and prefer opt out now for the reasons cited by @farfalla.

[Jennkryst]

@Tez said in Bannings:

@farfalla I wouldn’t want someone tripping over something they didn’t want to read without making the choice to read it.

I mean, that will happen regardless of if Rough and Rowdy or not.

[tsar]

@Tez said in Bannings:

Tsar generally prefer opt-out

It’s me, Tsar, and you all may remember me on this forum from some of my greatest posts like “I didn’t know how to change my name on discord so I used a name I didn’t enjoy for years”.

My opt-out stance is based entirely on the time I went to MSB and had no idea the hogpit even existed because I didn’t know how to opt-in and didn’t know what people were speaking of for months. In conclusion, I do not feel super strongly about this.