Heckler's veto
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@sao I do recall upvoting people who I generally don’t agree with very often, only to be asked later by someone else “I thought that you don’t like them? Why did you upvote what they said?”
I remember answering something to the affect, “Just because I don’t like them doesn’t mean they can’t have a good point or that I can never agree with them.”.
I don't know what I'm doing. Poke at Seven Nations sevennations.aresmush.com port 2021
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Who are these people with TIME to see who upvoted what?!
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@Testament said in Heckler's veto:
@sao I do recall upvoting people who I generally don’t agree with very often, only to be asked later by someone else “I thought that you don’t like them? Why did you upvote what they said?”
I remember answering something to the affect, “Just because I don’t like them doesn’t mean they can’t have a good point or that I can never agree with them.”.
Yeah, see, I’d find it very weird to be interrogated by someone about why I upvoted a post based on their idea of me not liking the poster.
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@Roz I attribute it to a certain level of tribalism. The concept of “well me and these people(family/friends/etc) stand against this other group of people because they once said x or did y or z”. I’ll note that I don’t really talk to the person anymore who I had this conversation with, because I realized that wasn’t a mentality I really wanted to have or be apart of. We don’t talk anymore.
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The amount of shit I get in other corners of the internet for “omg you don’t like them why would you agree with them” and “how dare you disagree with me I thought you liked me” is…unfortunately telling about our species, I think. I still run into these impulses on occasion even amongst present company, and I’ve done it myself, too.
This is a good chunk of where the whole “cliquish” accusation comes in in the hobby at large; folks agree on some key points, which of COURSE wouldn’t happen if they weren’t all friends that backed each other up – this is a “go to” assumption for human creatures for a variety of survival brain pathway reasons (and then also some dumb reasons too).
It is preferable to attribute it to tribalism over assuming that two people acting independently both came to the conclusion to disagree with you.
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@Meg said in Heckler's veto:
Rule 2, is it Hellfrog? Auto upvote.
OH I WOULD LIKE IT STATED FOR THE RECORD that i don’t autovote hellfrog because she’s a friend.
i autovote so that the two posts that i didn’t upvote of hers will stand out all the more.
no i will not say which ones.
you have to go find them.
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@Meg I don’t envy your direct message inbox.
(psst @hellfrog – live up to your name and give @Meg hell for not having 100% upvote rate from her)
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@Roz said in Heckler's veto:
Yeah, see, I’d find it very weird to be interrogated by someone about why I upvoted a post based on their idea of me not liking the poster.
The Upvote Detectives and how much they annoy me is the only reason I think anonymizing them isn’t necessarily a bad idea.
The more I think about it the more I think upvotes in general contribute to a positive environment more than they detract from one, though. The posts that get people from OPPOSITE SIDES
agreeing usually are pretty interesting and good for discussion if nothing else. -
I like knowing who agree with me though.
it’s nice to feel validation from a specific source! And I want people to know it is me telling them I agree.I also wanted people to know it was me when I downvoted tho. I don’t actually like anonymizing things. I think anonymity on the internet tends to make things worse, not better.
let it be a challenge to you
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@sao said in Heckler's veto:
I like knowing who agree with me though.
it’s nice to feel validation from a specific source! And I want people to know it is me telling them I agree.I also wanted people to know it was me when I downvoted tho. I don’t actually like anonymizing things. I think anonymity on the internet tends to make things worse, not better.
And this is why receiving no or few upvotes, is the equivalent to a downvote or generating the feeling that what is posted didn’t matter, was ignored, or was negatively received.
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@sao In the case of downvotes, I’d rather you(general you) just tell me why you disagree, but that might be a me thing. In that instance, downvote just feels impersonal.
I don't know what I'm doing. Poke at Seven Nations sevennations.aresmush.com port 2021
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I don’t like the idea of downvotes and I like the idea of anonymous downvotes even less. If someone disagrees with me, I want to know what they disagree with. I think anonymous downvotes invite trouble.
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@Testament I agree.
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@sao said in Heckler's veto:
I also wanted people to know it was me when I downvoted tho. I don’t actually like anonymizing things. I think anonymity on the internet tends to make things worse, not better.
I mean, I was perfectly happy that people knew I downvoted them, but this is a personality thing that has umm pros and cons lol. And anyway I don’t think any serious discussion is being had about bringing them back in any form (though I could be wrong).
Which is how I view anonymity, really. I think it can be very toxic because part of what it does is remove some inhibitions about how you’re responding to people, some of which leads to very bad behavior but some of which can also be productive in terms of shaking up whether you’re responding to the person as you know them or the person’s opinion, which aren’t always the same. Ultimately this isn’t an anonymous environment, for some of us more than others but I never engage with it with any particular anonymity. Within my post history I always have to own what I say. I’m also not someone who terribly cares about what form upvotes take or even if they go away, it’s just annoying when somebody goes through psychological yoga to read motives onto a click that don’t exist.
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If downvotes have served any purpose, is that once, on a different forum, not here or MSB, downvotes were visible and after downvoting about a topic, that person reached out to me to just ask why. This delved into a rather lengthy discussion that we both came out of it for the better. Now, do I expect this in every situation? No, but it did help me take the stance of “If you disagree with me or don’t like me, I’d like to know why.” as I’ve become a large proponent of open communication when that communication is viable. Not everyone will, and that’s fine.
That said, I doubt I’d want downvotes back in any kind of capacity, as despite my few good instances that were caused by them, overall I don’t believe they’re worth it.
I don't know what I'm doing. Poke at Seven Nations sevennations.aresmush.com port 2021
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Another vote for no downvotes please. I think Just Upvotes works really well for this community where people are very willing to spell out in no uncertain terms what they don’t like if they see it.
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Oh I’m sorry, I didn’t intend to start a discussion of downvotes as like an actual potential thing happening. I was just talking abt the anonymizing thing and wandered off into the weeds.
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@sao said in Heckler's veto:
Oh I’m sorry, I didn’t intend to start a discussion of downvotes as like an actual potential thing happening. I was just talking abt the anonymizing thing and wandered off into the weeds.
All good, fam. I was just piling on to get ahead of it. I like (in theory, there have not been any serious disagreements in the short time I’ve been here) that this community is willing to speak up when they see something they don’t like. But downvotes to me are the equivalent of throwing rotten vegetables at the stage.
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Back in THE DAY, before social media with upvotes or downvotes, there was Usenet.
And one of the things that came out of those days was the rueful acknowledgement of the Usenet Nod, which was basically that no one responded to your post. Because if they thought you were WRONG, you’d fucking hear about it (at length), but most people, if they see a post that they mildly agree with, then they’re just going to nod at their computer and move on to the next post. They’re not going to go out of their way to respond.
If we did away with upvotes, there would just be silence after a lot of very good posts, because people would just Usenet Nod, and spend their energy telling that other asshole over there that they are wrong on the internet. Likewise, most posts that don’t have a lot of upvotes aren’t disliked, they’re just nodded at and moved on from. So, when at all possible, just imagine that most of the forum goers, if they aren’t currently calling you names or telling you where they think you screwed up, are reading your post, smiling, nodding, and then moving on to the next post.
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If we got away from upvotes I’d be just fine with a litany of gif responses. Not that I don’t already do that.
