AI In Poses

Third Eye

So I’m not saying “never use grammar checkers because they suck and have no value”. I’m just saying that they don’t work well enough to be relied upon, and anybody who uses them needs to be well aware of their limitations. This just doesn’t happen when you’re a layperson whose only info is their marketing hype.

Make not mistake, I agree with this and agree with it more the more I play with the detectors, both the one I value enough to pay actual money for and the various other ones out there. I think Grammar Checks are one of the better comparisons that’ve come up, because I both use them and frequently just ignore what they’re highlighting.

Gonna be real real here, and apologies if this sounds dismissive to the people who say they can’t tell or don’t care about this stuff. I honestly do trust my gut more at this point, especially if my gut is confirmed by three or four other acquaintances of mine who I think have a really good sense of this stuff. My experience with false positives has been pretty minimal and limited to sets of text I’ve come to the conclusion teh detectors aren’t well-equipped to read. But the false negatives, and they happen not-infrequently, drive me a little batty. Because at that point I feel like I just have to accept probably being lied to by this person I’m playing with and shrugging my shoulders. But, idk, maybe that’s not the worst thing in the world.

I also really cringe at ‘vibes man’ becoming the way to figure this out, though, because I see some people spot ‘AI’ and I think they’re wrong, have terrible instincts, and are fixating on stuff I don’t think is relevant.

Faraday

@Third-Eye said in AI In Poses:

I also really cringe at ‘vibes man’ becoming the way to figure this out, though, because I see some people spot ‘AI’ and I think they’re wrong, have terrible instincts, and are fixating on stuff I don’t think is relevant.

Just to be clear on my stance - I can absolutely believe that there are people whose gut is worse than the detectors, and people whose gut is better than the detectors. I’m just critiquing the detectors in isolation and the danger of someone who already has a bad gut relying on them.

Much the same stance I have with self-driving cars, incidentally. They are definitely better than the worst drivers, and worse than the best drivers. But that aside, they are nowhere near reliable enough that I would trust myself or my loved ones to their care.

Prototart

@Tez said in AI In Poses:

I might not run things through a plagiarism checker, but I literally have seen people steal descriptions from other people and reuse them on other games. (@Roz for example. Someone stole her character desc from Arx and tried to use it on Concordia. As I recall, the player was disciplined. I am not sure if they were banned.)

I have been accused of stealing a desc I wrote bc someone first saw it being used by a person who stole it.

Ominous

@Clarion said in AI In Poses:

They just absolutely are not trustable, and I think human intuition of “wait, this writing feels wordy and bland and disconnected from what’s actually happening in the scene” is both more accurate and more useful right now, because if a person isn’t using AI but does sound wordy and bland and disconnected from the scene, that’s still worth checking in about.

Wordy, bland, and disconnected? Shit. Now I’m starting to think that they trained the AI on my poses.

Pavel

@Third-Eye said in AI In Poses:

I also really cringe at ‘vibes man’ becoming the way to figure this out, though, because I see some people spot ‘AI’ and I think they’re wrong, have terrible instincts, and are fixating on stuff I don’t think is relevant.

The number of times I’ve seen people on social media assert that something is “clearly AI” simply because it is a thing they themselves have never said or seen is astonishing. I can’t imagine it being any better when it’s something important, like the RP they’re presently having.

Yam

Aight so we can’t use tools to check, and we can’t use our guts to check, and we apparently can’t use both to check. What the fuck do we do, lie back and think of England? Hope for structural change in society? Assume the doofus that wrote like a chimpanzee 1 pose ago mustered the will and intelligence to get their shit together for this poetry contest?

KDraygo

@Yam Maybe it’s selfish of me but I personally just don’t worry about it when I RP. When I RP, it’s to relax and have fun. If the person I am RPing with is fun and his or her character connects with mine, that’s great and I want more. If their RP style, pose style, or writing doesn’t connect? That’s a shame but there are other people to RP with, I’m not going to think any less of them or worry that they are using AI. It’s not like I’m paying for a service and getting scammed by AI. It is what it is.

Ignorance is bliss for me.

Raistlin

AI detectors make me twitch because they don’t actually detect AI. They can’t. What they really do is look for patterns in the writing, like how smooth and predictable it is. Clean sentence structure and sensible word choices. Things like that. Ironically, the better your writing is, the more likely a detector is to call it AI.

My honest suggestion is this: if you think someone is using AI in their poses and you don’t like it, treat it the same way you would any other RP issue. If you don’t enjoy their writing for whatever reason, stop RPing with them. You’re not obligated to RP with anyone.

Ashkuri

@Raistlin Do you use AI in your images or writing for the MU/RP space?

Raistlin

@Ashkuri The general answer is, sometimes. For images, I might if I can’t find an existing image for what I need. If it’s a fictional location or something like that. I’ve helped other people use it for characters and what not as well.

For RP/text, not really. I don’t generate text with it but I might us it to organize my own text. Not for RP but for things that should be clear and concise I might run it through ChatGPT to get advice on how to restructure it.

Ashkuri

@Raistlin said in AI In Poses:

I’ve helped other people use it for characters and what not as well.

What does this mean?

Raistlin

@Ashkuri They’ve asked me to help them make images of their characters in Midjourney and I did. Helping them refine their prompt or whatever.

hellfrog

I don’t think comparing it to bad/boring writing is the whole story. With practice, if you are trying and writing your own poses, you might actually get better at it. You might evolve into being more interesting to interact with. It might be worth throwing some rp to a new/bad writer, just to give them some practice so they can improve!

LLMs never will. I resent throwing my time and effort into a black hole where I am getting nothing from it, and neither is anyone else.

Sab

Using LLMs to RP is, bare minimum, insulting as fuck. It is also pathetic, not that’s like a personal opinion and not like a cultural one. Literally the major difference between something like a MU* and other single player role-playing games is the interaction between people and the collaborative element to storytelling. Subverting that in any way goes beyond missing the point–it’s absurd to even want to.

Like what the fuck are you (you being the hypothetical LLMRP strawman I have made up in my head) doing? Why would I want to create anything with you while you’re playing a choose-your-own text adventure? If I want to RP with an LLM I literally do not need a person on the other end. If what you’re doing is something I could actually do without you to functionality the same degree of satisfaction why the fuck is it even happening?

That’s not even considering the larger conversation about LLMs and ethics or whatever.

Ban that shit and toss it in the fucking garbage.

sao

Yea it’s exactly the same as getting scammed by AI, sorry. I’m being scammed. You are tricking me into interacting with AI. It doesn’t matter to me at all that my time instead of money is being wasted. It’s the same basic betrayal either way.

This is specifically re: text, not images. I’ve used AI images before - made by other people because I lack the knack for prompts, not because of moral authority or whatever. I probably won’t again, because the more this stuff becomes pervasive the less comfortable I get with it. I have taken an AI image and brought it to a flesh and blood artist and paid them to draw a character based on it, though, and I felt okay about that.

Re: text, that is the meat of the thing.

somasatori

I know that AI models are slightly more sophisticated now, but whenever I picture attempting to RP with someone using an LLM for their poses, I imagine me writing out a big scene set, and then someone responding with the sort of stereotypical AI bowing and scraping it does.

Just pulling from a scene I ran back on Fallcoast in like 2015 because logs are forever (names removed):

The Forbidden Gate is one of the more frequented Gates in Fallcoast, and with good reason. It typically leads to one of the more stable and easier parts of the Underworld to access and travel through, rather than some of the others, which lead to winding caverns and mazes. Player1 and Player2 are able to push their way through the Gate and get into the Autocthonous Depths, pulling themselves through the initial tight squeeze of the caverns directly beyond the Gate until they reach the larger mass of empty rock interspersed with pillars, the place where most of the Rivers tend to wind up being.

Like usual lately, this part of the Underworld is a quiet place almost devoid entirely of ghosts and the Unfettered. It seems bizarrely empty; not even the sound of something moving in the dark beyond the Sin-Eaters’ line of sight can be heard. Only the rush of some Underworld River in the distance, and the scent of stale, fetid water that’s been standing for some time.

Player1 glances about and says, "It sounds like you were referring to how few ghosts are around these days. You’re absolutely right! Now I notice that there are no ghosts at all—it looks like they have fled deeper into the Autocthonous Depths. It isn’t just eerie. It’s terrifying.

Tez

@somasatori This is inaccurate to how they would actually respond. I was actually just saying this elsewhere, but the technology changes RAPIDLY, and we are fooling ourselves to think that is what it looks like, or that what we recognize now we will recognize in six or even three months.

somasatori

@Tez said in AI In Poses:

@somasatori This is inaccurate to how they would actually respond. I was actually just saying this elsewhere, but the technology changes RAPIDLY, and we are fooling ourselves to think that is what it looks like, or that what we recognize now we will recognize in six or even three months.

It’s too bad, since it would be easy enough to just separate it out. It’s hard to imagine what the endgame of using an LLM to RP would be, since the implication would be that if you’re using it, I could be using it, so … what, we’re just having our LLMs RP with each other? Even the staunchest “LLMs reduce the mental load/writing barrier on the player to dig into the story” advocates have to admit that would be a useless future for the hobby.

Tez

@somasatori said in AI In Poses:

Even the staunchest “LLMs reduce the mental load/writing barrier on the player to dig into the story” advocates have to admit that would be a useless future for the hobby.

No one has to admit anything and YOU CAN’T MAKE THEM!!!

Muscle Car

@Tez So you call yourself a role player? [smirk.jpg] Name all poses.