@Pavel I go back and forth on “it’s a just game,” just because so many times the phrase is used to diminish/ignore real issues, but I think you got it just right here.

If one’s choices are, “Hurt people who trust me,” or “Log off until I cool down,” really only one of those responses is right, and it’s right every time.

Sun thought I was upset at Polk’s bigotry. I had noticed it, but it wasn’t why I tried to talk to her about him. I told her expressly I was not interested in that side of the talk; that I had identified complex patterns of deceit and recklessness; that several other players (9 by the end) had given me proofs, some receipts. The end result was a ban for me and my partner. 8 other folks left the game within a week of that.

That’s why I have the signature I do. That’s why I laughed my ass off when Polk tried to throw in with me. Nah, bake on the pavement, wormie.

Sun, if you see this, even if you replace Polk, Wolfe, Mizha, all the troublemakers, the problem is your myopia, your inflexibility and your inability to believe you’re making a mistake until it’s you, not others, paying the price. Your “only complain about harassment/abuse/etc to me” rule was the greatest shield a serial abuser could hope for. You don’t trust us, and without trust nothing will get better.

"They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.”
― Jean-Paul Sartre

@Pyrephox “You can’t solve an OOC problem with an IC solution.”

From your lips to God’s ears. Perfectly crystallized.

@Roz If nothing else this dude has seriously boosted the upvote economy for many here. I’m dolin’ out kudos to someone every couple posts.

@Roz And I’ll tack on that when little Jenny Watercolor makes a painting, it doesn’t poison the entire city of Brownsville permanently.

@Pavel Let’s name the phenomenon Dead Telnet Theory.

@MisterBoring That dog don’t hunt.

First, I made clear that a person’s capacity to speed-post or be syntax-perfect and typo free isn’t a qualifying factor in whom I choose to give my time. In fact I’d argue that one of the repulsive aspects of LLM in any type of RP is that the idea of wanting other writers to be like me is narcissistic and small-minded. The qualifier I care about is to be chosen as the one someone shares their time with, and hopefully have unique experiences come out of the pairing/grouping.

Second, I cannot believe anyone is “forced” to use ChatGPT (or other LLMs) for RP, only that they may opt to and if they are open about it I might suggest alternatives. So that stance in this hypothetical situation doesn’t hold up for me, either. It may be the tool they choose, and I may or may not be able to tell a LLM is being used, but I won’t tell anyone to get bent unless they are abusive to me or my dear ones.

This idea that our writing in MUSHing is competitive and constantly being qualified or disqualified is for the birds. Such petty, snarky, judgmental behavior is one of the many reasons I don’t bother with MUSH anymore. I RP to have fun with creative people, not pretend I’m King God English Professor Shakespeare or that my writing has more value than someone else’s. This is a hobby. It’s about fun. Anything else is set dressing at best and distraction at worst.

I say this in the way of an American Southerner; bless your heart.

Until AI stops being tremendously and irreversibly environmentally destructive, and until it stops feeding money, growth and encouragement to the most evil people on the planet I see no need to make excuses for it. Maybe I’m a relative Luddite, but maybe that’s okay.

@MisterBoring The integration of “AI” into every single piece of software is personally abhorrent and will be looked back on with regret, mark my words. Further, if the service is free, you are the product. PAYING to be the product stretches that into the absurd.

I think my last point to make here is the simplest; I have NEVER turned down someone for RP when they said something like, “Forgive my English, it’s not my native language,” or “My poses are slow, is that okay?” I show them humanity and care, I feel special they chose me to spend time with. I will never feel compelled morally or socially to treat software with humanity. Especially when it’s so environmentally and socially repugnant.

@Rucket
A Buddhist was selling hot dogs for three bucks. A customer asked him “Make me one with everything,” and gave him a five dollar bill. He got his hot dog but asked, “Where’s my change?” The vendor replied, “True change comes from within.”

Your statement reminded me of the joke. Congrats on looking inside. ️

There was this one very sad sack on a game I used to hang who would join group scenes then post themselves doing stuff solo, not involving or inviting anyone. Even to ignoring invitation. They’d get real miserable and start adding editorial in their own posts like “because she is not needed.” They had very bad traits in addition to that, but I’ll never forget how performatively alone they loved to be.

@somasatori They’re institutionalized. I remember being shocked that Sun introduced back into Lib three prior problem players, telling us on public channels to “give them a chance,” and being more shocked how it was just accepted (and dissent coldly shut down). All three players raised hell after a couple weeks of playing nice. At some point it becomes engineered failure.

There are some people who only feel at home in conflict and feel alienated in places of sense and order, so they manufacture conflict in order to feel in their element. Players and staff can succumb to it, but when it’s a lifestyle, not an accident, there’s little to be done but find greener pastures or a new means to enjoy the hobby.

@MisterBoring That dog don’t hunt.

First, I made clear that a person’s capacity to speed-post or be syntax-perfect and typo free isn’t a qualifying factor in whom I choose to give my time. In fact I’d argue that one of the repulsive aspects of LLM in any type of RP is that the idea of wanting other writers to be like me is narcissistic and small-minded. The qualifier I care about is to be chosen as the one someone shares their time with, and hopefully have unique experiences come out of the pairing/grouping.

Second, I cannot believe anyone is “forced” to use ChatGPT (or other LLMs) for RP, only that they may opt to and if they are open about it I might suggest alternatives. So that stance in this hypothetical situation doesn’t hold up for me, either. It may be the tool they choose, and I may or may not be able to tell a LLM is being used, but I won’t tell anyone to get bent unless they are abusive to me or my dear ones.

This idea that our writing in MUSHing is competitive and constantly being qualified or disqualified is for the birds. Such petty, snarky, judgmental behavior is one of the many reasons I don’t bother with MUSH anymore. I RP to have fun with creative people, not pretend I’m King God English Professor Shakespeare or that my writing has more value than someone else’s. This is a hobby. It’s about fun. Anything else is set dressing at best and distraction at worst.

@MisterBoring The integration of “AI” into every single piece of software is personally abhorrent and will be looked back on with regret, mark my words. Further, if the service is free, you are the product. PAYING to be the product stretches that into the absurd.

I think my last point to make here is the simplest; I have NEVER turned down someone for RP when they said something like, “Forgive my English, it’s not my native language,” or “My poses are slow, is that okay?” I show them humanity and care, I feel special they chose me to spend time with. I will never feel compelled morally or socially to treat software with humanity. Especially when it’s so environmentally and socially repugnant.

@MisterBoring There are worlds of incredible tools which allow accessibility of voice and text communication which have stood the test of time. As a workforce manager one of my jobs was ensuring all employees were, through software and hardware tools, to have equal footing with other workers. And those workers often also worked from home, but it was effectively invisible to the bosses when said workers were given and trained with the right tools.

Important to note none of those tools require making a deal with the devil. I can’t feel the same about LLMs. Nobody owes an explanation for what they do until it crosses legal or etheical thresholds. City poisoning, thieving, lying machines with the capacity to induce suicides and murders in vulnerable parties are simply not on par with the many robust options which already exist.

@MisterBoring That I’d always rather engage with a real person. That passion and creativity are always more important than getting an A from imaginary English teachers. That people who can’t look past typos or short posts aren’t worth one’s time. That no amount of for-fun amateur rp between pals can justify poisoning entire cities.

That you are enough, and you are welcome.

Until AI stops being tremendously and irreversibly environmentally destructive, and until it stops feeding money, growth and encouragement to the most evil people on the planet I see no need to make excuses for it. Maybe I’m a relative Luddite, but maybe that’s okay.

This is a kickass thread.

@Juniper Someone here nailed it when they called it something like “complex yet somehow boring.”