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Bannings
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I loathe the notion that receipts are necessary for any complaint to be taken seriously.
There’s a difference, in my mind, between ‘not taking seriously’ and ‘not acting on’. A single complaint without anything to support the assertion? Taken seriously, not necessarily acted on beyond instructions to avoid each other.
More than one complaint, less-to-no evidence required. At least in my opinion.
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I feel like any credibility really tanked when they referenced dealing with the complaints of the banned as “negotiating with terrorists”.
Ask me about professional wrestling.
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@Dreampipe said in Bannings:
I feel like any credibility really tanked when they referenced dealing with the complaints of the banned as “negotiating with terrorists”.
For the sake of clarity, this was only said (that I know of) by Ganymede not any of the remaining/newly acquired leadership.
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@Solstice I totally understand that reaction, and applaud it for the sake of your mental health and safety.
I know you’re not addressing anyone in this thread, and I’m not aiming to be defensive, because I know this wasn’t aimed at me or anyone in this thread. When I’m looking for “receipts” as a staffer (I don’t think I have or ever would use that term), I don’t need gory details. But I do want to get a few broad strokes and perhaps some generalized examples. I want to know how someone was creepy, so that I can compare it to what I’ve seen of them and what others may have reported to me. Particularly the latter – if I’m getting multiple people from different playgroups telling me that a particular player is OOCly talking about their RL kinks without prompting, that’s something I can act on directly.
As a staffer, I neither need nor want “receipts” to be public or detailed. I don’t want to open someone up to reliving trauma in that way. I do, however, want a few broad strokes so that I know the type of creep I’m dealing with and can compare it to any other complaints.
Formerly known as Seraphim73 (he/him)
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I believe the call for “receipts” is specifically meaning logs / screenshots, rather than “explanation of what happened”. I am not certain how one could otherwise react appropriately to a complaint.
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Confession, I’ve never watched/read Watchmen (I have seen and read bits of it, however), so it took me a moment to go “…wait, isn’t The Comedian a rapist?”
googles
Yes, definitely the example I would use for my handle when talking about false accusations against creepers.
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@kalakh yeah, the Comedian was Not A Good Guy
. That’s kind of the whole point of him?There weren’t very many good characters in The Watchmen, tho.
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I for one can recall the MSB thread about DownWithOPP being on Arx wherein a bunch of different players he creeped out were able to compare notes and realize it wasn’t just a once-off thing and was actually a recurring pattern, and thus felt confident in putting in complaints on the game. Because a lot of them were in a place of “he was kind of weird but maybe it was just accidental” place of not being sure they should report.
There was also an instance someone else has remembered where someone was hopping around a lot of Ares games and being creepy on rosters and the word going around on MSB helped at least one game quickly identify him and toss him out before he’d done too much damage.
But right, of course, MSB never helped to identify bad actors.
So I’m a page behind and may end up ETA or double-posting, but let me just re: the DownwithOPP thread…
Don’t you little angel babies ever be afraid of losing the context of that thread, or at least not all of the context of that thread. DownwithOPP harassed multiple women on a game where I was staff, and repeatedly pointed out how miserable and abusive his behavior was, only to be ignored by Dropkick. (Who, hey, surprise! Also turned out to be massively toxic and have major boundary issues with multiple women.)
I will never, ever, ever let go of the fact that there were wonderful players that were driven off on my watch, that I was unable to protect, that felt unsafe on a space I helped to make. I might, might have been able to get over it and just grumble about him under my breath if he had reformed, but instead the man has proven to be a serial harasser of more than decade.
I promise you right now that I could disappear from MSB, from BMD, from my current games, from MUing in general, and I would come back to drop some stories and some identifying behavior about that creep if someone thought it would help shield people from him. I would shake a cane at our future 3D character holograms and go on a rambling old man screed about him from my nursing home. I would rise from my fucking grave to help burn that asshole’s hidden identity to the ground.
He is and will remain my Official Internet Grudge until the day he stops being such a massive piece of shit, so y’know, probably forever.
^ Actual footage of me coming back from the dead to remind everyone that DownwithOPP is the human equivalent of that massive trash island floating around the Pacific.
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@Meg I would argue the point of Watchmen is none of the characters are “good,” at least not in the sense of being aspirational figures. But yes, the cold-blooded murdering rapist is inarguably the worst of a bad lot.
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@GF i really love The Watchmen and could talk about it for days, and argue merits of what makes any of them good or bad or aspirational.
(he also didn’t technically rape anyone, that we know of. he attempted to rape sally jupiter, but then they later had consensual sex that resulted in laurie.)
but that would be a derail. sorry.
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@IoleRae Yup. I wasn’t really trying to contest @Solstice’s point, just noting my own personal way of going about such things. I will note that having logs or screenshots is helpful for me as a Staffer, but I would never demand them before taking action if I thought that action was warranted based on other evidence (including eyewitness testimony).
Formerly known as Seraphim73 (he/him)
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Oh yes, of course it’s useful; having them can be super helpful (as long as we remember that that stuff can be wholesale fabricated very easily – in my personal bugbear’s case, for example, she takes a legitimate page conversation and adds or removes just a few words here and there). It’s just that it takes a lot sometimes to admit that you let somebody take advantage of you; putting it on display even to somebody trusted can be a barrier too hard to get through, especially if your conduct was shameful in any way (e.g., participating in writing smut). The bad actors we are talking about in more specific senses take very careful advantage of that.
the entity previously known as Sunny
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especially if your conduct was shameful in any way (e.g., participating in writing smut).
I really wish that we, as a society and even as a species, could just get over the fact that most of us like sex and move on. Literally every single person on this planet is here because of someone somewhere boning at various points in time.
But no. No, no. We - particularly women - must continue engaging in this ridiculous charade of pretending we’re a 1950s Elvgren pinup, perpetually wearing a surprised expression of “You put penises where?!”
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My favorite part of the community split is that the worst of the slut-shamers stayed behind.
the entity previously known as Sunny
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@Aria Considering ~40% of our society wants us to go back to the 1950s on pretty much everything related to sex/gender/race/any cultural issue, I feel like it’s going to be a long time before all that happens.
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@Jennkryst said in Bannings:
@GF Too bad, I am also obsessed with you, Regina George style, because we are all hawt mean girls.
Out of everything the new crew of MSB has done, the taking of Mean Girls memes in vain is surely their most unforgivable crime.
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Say, changing the subject every single time their target spoke up on a channel about something. It’s not even REPORTABLE, but after 20 times of being silenced like this, it’s obviously a pattern.)
That caught my eye.
This kind of microaggression is definitely frustrating and it sucks to be its subject. However what about it is sanctionable? How much of it is reportable?
In other words what would a proper escalation to staff look like? And more specifically what is staff’s role here, as it seems there would be a line - somewhere - that separates administrating a game from having to micromanage personal peeves?
… I used micro twice in two paragraphs. Ew.
But anyway, what is that line, what does it look like?
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Say, changing the subject every single time their target spoke up on a channel about something. It’s not even REPORTABLE, but after 20 times of being silenced like this, it’s obviously a pattern.)
That caught my eye.
This kind of microaggression is definitely frustrating and it sucks to be its subject. However what about it is sanctionable? How much of it is reportable?
In other words what would a proper escalation to staff look like? And more specifically what is staff’s role here, as it seems there would be a line - somewhere - that separates administrating a game from having to micromanage personal peeves?
… I used micro twice in two paragraphs. Ew.
But anyway, what is that line, what does it look like?
I think the player should report. No, this by itself isn’t bannable and might not even be something you’d talk to someone about right away.
It’s something I’d probably never notice if it wasn’t happening to me.
But if it was pointed out in like, hey this person has been causing me to feel pushed out by doing <insert micro aggression>, that would put me on notice and I’d be watching them a lot more closely.
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Say, changing the subject every single time their target spoke up on a channel about something. It’s not even REPORTABLE, but after 20 times of being silenced like this, it’s obviously a pattern.)
That caught my eye.
This kind of microaggression is definitely frustrating and it sucks to be its subject. However what about it is sanctionable? How much of it is reportable?
In other words what would a proper escalation to staff look like? And more specifically what is staff’s role here, as it seems there would be a line - somewhere - that separates administrating a game from having to micromanage personal peeves?
I’d disagree with calling the described behavior a “personal peeve.” Something that consistent would basically have to be a targeted, purposeful thing. It’s only a “personal peeve” in that anyone would be PEEVED at being targeted by someone purposefully trying to be a jerk to you.
In any case, I agree with @tsar: it’s reportable. Not bannable, but staff can absolutely be like “dude we see what you’re doing, knock it off.”
