Don’t forget we moved!
https://brandmu.day/
TV series gone awry
-
@Arkandel I made it 10 minutes into Resident Evil and turned it off. It was horrible, I didn’t understand the world (because it had nothing to do with the games) and I guess that makes sense now if the showrunner had never played them before.
I liked Wheel of Time, but I also didn’t read the books.
-
I actually hadn’t read Wheel of Time before it became a show and decided to start reading the books at the same time as I watched the show. I’ve done that with a few series recently that were made into the TV shows.
The books are usually better, obviously, because you can go in depth more with the characters. With WoT, I did not enjoy the first book. It seemed like LotR rehash, step for step - only not as entertaining, and it bored me. After the first book, WoT got better once it didn’t parallel with LotR quite so neatly.
So I didn’t mind that the TV show changed the story. I think they also wanted to avoid all the parallels. They just didn’t do it well. It seemed very chaotic and all over the place. There wasn’t cohesion and for a story, that is bad, especially if you don’t eventually bring it all together by the end of the season. Things that happened seemed pretty random, just coming out of nowhere, forcing the viewers to just accept ‘MAGIC!’ or ‘MONSTERS!’ as the reason. I don’t care about the casting, but the story needs to make sense and the characters’ motivations need to be rational (at least to them).
There have been other shows that changed the stories from the books. Some are done well. Some aren’t. TV has a particular format and that requires adjustments. So I get buying a license with the intent to change the story, especially since some book licenses are VERY cheap. But it is a gamble and you have to do it well. In the case of WoT, it just wasn’t done well - mostly in the story. They spent a whole lot of money and came out with a scattered mess. Costumes seem nice. CG is on point. Acting could be better. But overall, it just doesn’t come together the way you want it to. You want it to capture your attention and not let go. It doesn’t. Its just something cool to look at if you’re bored.
It wasn’t horrible. But it wasn’t great. And the money they spent was for great. If I was in charge of the show, I wouldn’t renew it based on the cost. I’d have expected a lot more for what was put into it. As a viewer though, I’d keep watching, even if it is ultimately pretty disappointing.
-
@Arkandel said in TV series gone awry:
I don’t understand why companies like Amazon would go through the expensive process of purchasing a license for an existing fandom then hire people who want to do their own thing. If that thing (whatever it is) is good to begin with then what kept them from launching under a new brand?
The logic seems to be something like, “Well if this product was good enough to be a TV show in the first place, then it already would be one, so we need to fix it.”
At least, that’s in cases where the creative team is demonstrably contemptuous of the source material (looking at you, Snyder). Sometimes there’s just production fuckery like Netflix’s stock tanking and shows losing their budgets, or actors not being available, or S&P demanding rewrites of an episode you have to finish RIGHT NOW, or…
-
@Warma-Sheen said in TV series gone awry:
There have been other shows that changed the stories from the books. Some are done well. Some aren’t. TV has a particular format and that requires adjustments. So I get buying a license with the intent to change the story, especially since some book licenses are VERY cheap. But it is a gamble and you have to do it well.
The way that I like to think of it is this.
Any medium adaptation will come with changes. Robert Jordan could afford to spend 50 pages discussing the intricacies of Saidar in multiple books but it’d be boring as hell to watch 10 minutes per episode getting schooled in the native magic system. Some characters and arcs need pruning as well; even names might have to be changed because they’d sound the same when spoken out loud. All that is fine.
What the goal should be is respect to the original material. As in, showrunners and directors who at least seem to like the stuff they’re adapting. There was zero doubt in my mind when Peter Jackson removed Tom Bombadil from the Lord of the Rings saga that he did it respectfully. And he was right; even though there were ripple effects (the sword Merry used later on was custom-made to hurt the Witch-King) that didn’t get explained, adding a 20-25 minute side quest which barely affects anything else afterwards would have made no sense.
However at no time could a fan look at the LotR trilogy and reasonably think “well, this guy wanted to do his own thing”. Everything about the movies smelled like Tolkien’s work.
That’s the gold standard. Getting someone who’s excited not to do their own thing and slap another creator’s label on it but who loves the material enough to bring it over onto a different medium.
-
Game of Thrones, Just to get it out of the way, since it was such an egregious recent example of creators rushing to get through with a series so they could get started on their (evaporated) Star Wars opportunity. Why, guys. Why.
But since I’m here, I’ll call out Lost and Heroes for squandering things that were really cool ideas by either endlessly refusing to open the mystery box (Damn it, J.J.), or just having absolutely no idea what to do with a premise once it’s gone on for more seasons than expected.
-
@Arkandel said in TV series gone awry:
Any medium adaptation will come with changes. Robert Jordan could afford to spend 50 pages discussing the intricacies of Saidar in multiple books but it’d be boring as hell to watch 10 minutes per episode getting schooled in the native magic system. Some characters and arcs need pruning as well; even names might have to be changed because they’d sound the same when spoken out loud. All that is fine.
As the world’s biggest Stephen King fan, I think the biggest reason most of the movies based on his books have sucked is because they stayed faithful to the source material, without seeming to understand that film is not novels, novels is not film, and sometimes you gotta change things around to make them work.
Also, cut the weird pederasty on general principle, and hire someone to touch up the dialogue so it sounds like humans talking instead of characters monologing.
-
@Solstice said in TV series gone awry:
Game of Thrones, Just to get it out of the way, since it was such an egregious recent example of creators rushing to get through with a series so they could get started on their (evaporated) Star Wars opportunity. Why, guys. Why.
I’ve never seen a franchise swirl down the drain as fast as Game of Thrones did.
Before season 8 there were warning signs but despite it all expectations were… through the roof. Genuine excitement. T-shirts, memorabilia, watch parties set up in bars, trending YouTube streams of videos taken from those parties to catch fans’ reactions to each episode. It was seriously the biggest, most successful TV property on the planet.
Then season 8 hit and it killed the show. It was as dramatic a fall as I’ve ever seen.
-
Purely in the circles I travel in, I remember a lot of people being too shocked to even be angry at how goofy seasons 6+ of Supernatural are.
But they kept watching it, so more fool them, I guess.
-
@Arkandel You could really tell when they ran out of George R. R. Martin material and started going for the lowest hanging fruit.
And then when they decided they were done caring and made all the women characters suck.
(ETA: Except Sansa, she stuck the landing)
-
@Solstice said in TV series gone awry:
But since I’m here, I’ll call out Lost and Heroes for squandering things that were really cool ideas by either endlessly refusing to open the mystery box (Damn it, J.J.), or just having absolutely no idea what to do with a premise once it’s gone on for more seasons than expected.
I’m a big fan of The Leftovers and the HBO Watchmen mini-series in part because I feel like you can see Damon Lindelof actually learning from and applying lessons from Where LOST Went Wrong
. I remain sort of a LOST apologist but it definitely did a lot of shit that annoyed me and was narratively shaggy in ways it couldn’t cover for as time went on. -
The last few episodes of the Battlestar Galactica “re-imagining”. I’m still angry about how they squandered it all so very very quickly at the end there. It was such a lazy ending that didn’t meet up with any of the show that had happened before it.
I read an analysis where someone said that the way that the writing team came up with ideas was “put it in because it’s cool and we’ll figure it out later!” and then they got to “later” and they hadn’t figured it out.
-
@Snackness said in TV series gone awry:
@Arkandel You could really tell when they ran out of George R. R. Martin material and started going for the lowest hanging fruit.
And then when they decided they were done caring and made all the women characters suck.
(ETA: Except Sansa, she stuck the landing)
Yeah. I think it’s because some characters had a narrative they could fake, either through cool moments (Daenerys flying on a dragon wrecking shit) or raw acting (Gwendoline Christie and Nikolaj Coster-Waldau had excellent chemistry).
But they couldn’t set up the moving pieces at all. Characters like Littlefinger or Lord Varys require setting up before they can shine. They need to see moves ahead of time, which means there have to be moves for them to see.
Instead they died just to wrap up their arcs before the series ended.
-
This post is deleted! -
@Solstice said in TV series gone awry:
But since I’m here, I’ll call out Lost and Heroes for squandering things that were really cool ideas by either endlessly refusing to open the mystery box (Damn it, J.J.), or just having absolutely no idea what to do with a premise once it’s gone on for more seasons than expected.
While I don’t blame the writers for striking, the fact that they did strike contributed a non-zero amount of reason why every show got weird and stumbled a bit.
Also the massive delay between parts 1 and 2 of a season contributed to studios selling each half of a Boxed Set at full price, which is extra grievous and proof we should have started eating the rich years ago.
@Rathenhope said in TV series gone awry:
The last few episodes of the Battlestar Galactica “re-imagining”. I’m still angry about how they squandered it all so very very quickly at the end there. It was such a lazy ending that didn’t meet up with any of the show that had happened before it.
They were amazing and I love them all. Just the outright zaniness of the sudden turn into crazy, it hits as fast as the ‘suddenly vampires!’ in From Dusk til Dawn, but also hits multiple times for different reveals.
-
True Blood was terrible from the start, but at the beginning, it seemed to have a real awareness of how cheesy it was and lean into that. I made it five seasons, but after that, it felt like it had gone so far into character flanderization and needing more ridiculous things that I was done.
Basically with the death of the one character at the start of the last season, just left a foul taste in my mouth.
I’m okay with cheesy dumb vampire stories, but apparently I have my limit.
ETA: All that said, “I LOVE YOU JASON STACKHOUSE” is perhaps my favorite moment in the whole series.
-
My husband recommended Boston Legal and in the first episode
SPOILER (where is the little crossed out eye for hiding stuff?!)
William Shatner’s character is screwing the wife of a client
End spoiler!
And I feel like that is too on brand for Shatner that this can only go downhill from here.
-
@Solstice said in TV series gone awry:
But since I’m here, I’ll call out Lost and Heroes for squandering things that were really cool ideas by either endlessly refusing to open the mystery box (Damn it, J.J.), or just having absolutely no idea what to do with a premise once it’s gone on for more seasons than expected.
Lost: I might be in the minority but I loved that they did not explain it all. As the writers talked about when people flipped after the finale, the story was about the characters, not the island. Part of the beauty of the show (from how I saw it) was that the island was explained each step of the way as the story progressed by the characters that knew about it. When we met characters who knew more about the history, we learned more about the island. By the end, we learned a crazy amount of stuff about the island, but people still wanted to know more. It wasn’t enough to show that there were immortal beings who lived on the island for thousands of years who didn’t fully understand what the island was, but people still expected that they should get all the the answers. I guess people wanted a user manual for the island and were aggravated that they didn’t get one. I don’t think any explanation would have been good enough to satisfy people. Some things are better left unsaid. This was one of them. Ultimately, I think people ended up being annoyed that the show didn’t turn out to be what they wanted it to be instead of enjoying the show for what it was.
Heroes: I think they did know what they wanted to do, but the turnover in the writers’ room caused them to keep changing course and that just led the show to go nowhere. A truly disappointing missed opportunity. The thing I remember most about that show is that Sylar spent an entire season just riding in a car on a road trip. An entire season.
-
@Rathenhope said in TV series gone awry:
The last few episodes of the Battlestar Galactica “re-imagining”. I’m still angry about how they squandered it all so very very quickly at the end there. It was such a lazy ending that didn’t meet up with any of the show that had happened before it.
I read an analysis where someone said that the way that the writing team came up with ideas was “put it in because it’s cool and we’ll figure it out later!” and then they got to “later” and they hadn’t figured it out.
I am still angry about this. The dude who created and wrote Babylon 5, arguably one of the best sci-fi series in the last 30 years managed to screw up a series so badly. I can’t watch BSG past season two. I couldn’t take it seriously.
And then it just…goes off the rails. I was already checked out at the Fat Apollo part, and the end just whatever shred credit I had given it finally just slid out of my head.
I don't know what I'm doing. Poke at Seven Nations sevennations.aresmush.com port 2021
-
@Testament said in TV series gone awry:
@Rathenhope said in TV series gone awry:
The last few episodes of the Battlestar Galactica “re-imagining”. I’m still angry about how they squandered it all so very very quickly at the end there. It was such a lazy ending that didn’t meet up with any of the show that had happened before it.
I read an analysis where someone said that the way that the writing team came up with ideas was “put it in because it’s cool and we’ll figure it out later!” and then they got to “later” and they hadn’t figured it out.
I am still angry about this. The dude who created and wrote Babylon 5, arguably one of the best sci-fi series in the last 30 years managed to screw up a series so badly. I can’t watch BSG past season two. I couldn’t take it seriously.
I’m not sure if you think J Michael Straczynski made BSG or Ronald Moore made B5 but neither of those things are true; the person who created Babylon 5 did not work on BSG.
-
@Testament One of the reasons there may be that some series have a great premise, but it’s spent on their first season.
Prison Break fits in that category very well. It started really strong but come the fuck on, how many times are these guys gonna end up in different prisons only to escape from them?
Series based on ‘mysteries’ like Lost, Flash Forward etc are the same. Viewers are intrigued, but the producers know they’ll lose them as soon as they provide answers so… there are none. And the more convoluted it gets, the harder it is for those answers to be both unexpected and make sense at the same time.
These days I think one of the best models for meta-heavy shows is to do it as self-contained mini series (Wandavision, etc) or to embrace the insanity (Riverdale) - like, don’t even try to take yourself seriously. Resurrect people? Yeah let’s do it. Vampires and angels exist? Okay, fine. How does it all work? It’s magic, silly.
