Liberation MUSH
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@somasatori to be fair, he’s been tolerated through a lot it sounds like, and she’s been willing to lose/alienate many players to keep him on. Charity case or the “la la la who cares about the past” stubbornness, dunno. I don’t know too many other competent headwizzen who would need to remove someone twice from staff positions in spheres for cause and would still allow them staff access to not hurt their feelings and to allow them to continue to have a power hold on the game itself. So I can see why he’d think that it could be just handwaved away.
But I really hope that indeed at least this time something has been learned and the keys permanently taken away. And that there was a line that he could cross eventually. If not I kinda hope maybe more people will view it as a Not Just Polk problem.
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@mietze That’s a good point, and I agree. I don’t know what the dynamic there is, it seemed pretty toxic based on the back and forth. I personally like Sundance, so setting that aside: there is a poor precedent set in allowing someone to come back or taking half-measures in addressing problematic behavior. It’s good it seems like it was fully addressed, hopefully there are some new warning signs or alarm bells that come from this experience (e.g., people setting strong ultimatums, people using all-or-nothing thinking, people saying ‘you obviously don’t care about me because you won’t take my side when <X> happened’ and so on). It’s unfortunate it was allowed to go on as long as it did.
I admittedly don’t have a ton of involvement with the wider community these days, but this is definitely a Not Just Polk problem. Overbearing and abusive personalities have historically pushed to get their way on games; I’m sure they still do. We hear about the big blow-ups, but there are probably many small instances where someone feels obligated to hold someone in a position or people manipulating or bullying people into allowing them to retain even the smallest level of power. That log (which appears to have been removed from the thread) is a good example of what behavior is unacceptable to take from “friends.”
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did it get removed from the thread because people realized that every body in it came out looking very cringe*???
i gotta know.
*in varying levels of cringe
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@Meg It’s difficult to look suave in a monkey-shit fight.
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@OnceWas speak for yourself. i always look great.
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I still see the Imgur screenshot log. What got removed??
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Perhaps the person posting stuff that was obviously from Sundance’s screen that was shared probably in confidence (also an unwise move that real friends should have warned about) thought better of it (hopefully) or was asked by someone else to knock it off?
I hope that’s a lesson learned too, should be easy to figure out who broke confidence.
Oh Roz says its still up, so apparently no to realizing that was a not great thing to do.
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@Roz Discord name, by the context?
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@mietze I disagree, that was a great thing to do! give us the tea!
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@mietze said in Liberation MUSH:
Perhaps the person posting stuff that was obviously from Sundance’s screen that was shared probably in confidence (also an unwise move that real friends should have warned about) thought better of it (hopefully) or was asked by someone else to knock it off?
I hope that’s a lesson learned too, should be easy to figure out who broke confidence.
Oh Roz says its still up, so apparently no to realizing that was a not great thing to do.
She (Sundance) openly shared it all and discussed it all in the game for transparency.
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@Pan said in Liberation MUSH:
@mietze said in Liberation MUSH:
Perhaps the person posting stuff that was obviously from Sundance’s screen that was shared probably in confidence (also an unwise move that real friends should have warned about) thought better of it (hopefully) or was asked by someone else to knock it off?
I hope that’s a lesson learned too, should be easy to figure out who broke confidence.
Oh Roz says its still up, so apparently no to realizing that was a not great thing to do.
She (Sundance) openly shared it all and discussed it all in the game for transparency.
“Transparency.” Sundance takes action and suddenly the logs are free flowing.
Of course they are. This was the one time she actually held him to account, so why not expose his bad behavior? I’d love to see a log of all the times where he did all the other abusive, manipulative, and unethical shit and see the logs of her explaining over and over why she’s doing nothing at all. That would be real transparency.
Because it wasn’t just this one incident that caused this. Even she said that. So exposing the logs of this one incident isn’t really the whole story. Its just a snippet of a narrative that looks good for her: “Polk flips. I call him on his stuff. He freaks. I stand tough. He flips the table. The game goes down, but only for a short while because I already had brilliant backup plans in place thanks to my great wisdom and foresight.”
But that’s not the whole story. So it isn’t “transparency” so much as a slightly dipped down opacity of one part of one day amidst years of shit that happens to cast her as the stalwart hero in this one curated moment.
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@Jynxbox said in Liberation MUSH:
I’d love to see a log of all the times where he did all the other abusive, manipulative, and unethical shit and see the logs of her explaining over and over why she’s doing nothing at all
Oh, I have about… nineteen or so logged conversations which may have some value, then. Two of them spring to mind immediately, wherein Sundance did a small floor-show for my benefit, because I misread the clear, crisp wording of Polk after a line of inquiry was opened. Because, y’know, literacy am hard, apparently.
Silly ol’ me, just wholly misunderstanding my native language again.
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He/Him. Opinions and views are solely my own unless specifically stated otherwise.
BE AN ADULT -
Sundance does a lot right over on Liberation, but she also does so much wrong. Her focus on house rules that overly complicate and bog down what should be easy systems. Her need to have a fully formed detailed expansive grid, when half the places on the grid are not used and people just jump to various pc owned hangouts. All putting jobs at absolute standstill. Even the big important jobs that should be handled quickly, like sphere changes. Do you know how hard it is to keep motivation and roleplay going when you get changed to another sphere and you just sit as your old sphere for months?
Plots on all spheres is frozen, people are limited to social rp and what little prp there is that really has no overall effect on the game. We get plenty of promises that things will pick up… you know…as soon as she is done with the grid…or because there’s a lack of staff…but she’s working on it.
This actually happens a lot over there, I can count three times where there was multi month freeze on jobs in the past…what two years?
No plot movement, no sheet adjustments (i.e being ghouled but still presenting as mortal, or getting embraced, awakening etc), no xp spends, no grid builds. Just her working on her unnecessary changes and personal grid mapping projects. I don’t even know what the current staff ARE doing over there.
My guess is handling ooc disputes and chatting in their personal channels.
She is level headed most times, willing to take the time to talk to someone, fully able and committed to listening to players ideas and considering them. But the stuff that actually keeps the game alive, the things that keep players INVESTED…not so much. Also, this whole ‘Protecting Polk’ despite his extensive history thing sours a lot of people.
It’s my hope this situation lights a fire and we start seeing movement. Bring on the people you need to handle specific jobs. Sheet changes, approvals, etc without giving them too much power. Encourage directors and producers to actually do stuff with the players, if the current ones are too busy or unable, approach other trusted players to take some of the slack.
With a lack of alternative games, Liberation is really the only active game that has the population and had the plot to keep me interested. I don’t wanna loose the one outlet I have for this hobby as the others are social rp only these days.
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@SuspectHound said in Liberation MUSH:
It’s my hope this situation lights a fire and we start seeing movement.
Haven’t there been situations similar to this in the past with other people? What makes Polk’s explosion different in terms of getting Sundance to see things differently?
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@MisterBoring I just said I hope, not that it’s a realistic hope. heh. Really, it might be too late. We might be seeing the first death shudders as we have so often in the past. Maybe someone will get this thread back to her. I have no doubt Polk, staff and others are watching this thread.
It’s a hope…
Otherwise, what is really left…COH? That’s basically a corpse that refuses to admit it’s dead.
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@Pavel Ah. You, I don’t know. So, you - you, get to wait a bit. Fun, huh?
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@SuspectHound said in Liberation MUSH:
Otherwise, what is really left…COH? That’s basically a corpse that refuses to admit it’s dead.
Ah, the quintessential vampire game!
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@somasatori said in Liberation MUSH:
@SuspectHound said in Liberation MUSH:
Otherwise, what is really left…COH? That’s basically a corpse that refuses to admit it’s dead.
Ah, the quintessential vampire game!
Yes, yes, but do they have sex?
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@Pavel said in Liberation MUSH:
@somasatori said in Liberation MUSH:
@SuspectHound said in Liberation MUSH:
Otherwise, what is really left…COH? That’s basically a corpse that refuses to admit it’s dead.
Ah, the quintessential vampire game!
Yes, yes, but do they have sex?
I think they have sex with the dead Requiem games and expressly do not have sex with dead Masquerade games.
