pvp vs pvp
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@Third-Eye said in pvp vs pvp:
This is another one that doesn’t really read like Ghost’s MO to me, unless he’s decided to change his personality for like the fifth time.
Oh, but Ghost is a singular login for multiple users who want anonymity on these anonymous forums… or something…
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Anyway, as for THE YOUTHS, I know a 20-something Lawyer who has recently joined places and is the most recent ‘youngest player on the game’. Another guy introduced his daughter and her boyfriend to a game and their ISP listed like 20 characters from their house when staff tried to +alt. So new blood does happen. Theres also r/MU*
A few of us have talked over the years about some sort of video essay to throw onto the YouTubes, that could be a potential way to introduce new players. An issue is MU takes extra hoops to jump through, which Ares solves to a degree, but purists are still frowny at it for whatever reason (its code. The reason is code).
Mummy Pun? MUMMY PUN!
She/her -
@Jennkryst Honestly I wouldn’t be surprised if this hobby dies in our lifetime but if/when it does, we hopefully all have some fond memories.
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@RedRocket said in pvp vs pvp:
Lame is not…
Do not.
Sorry to backtrack, carry on, just had to pull that one out and make it clear.
she/they
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@Hobbie said in pvp vs pvp:
@Jennkryst Honestly I wouldn’t be surprised if this hobby dies in our lifetime but if/when it does, we hopefully all have some fond memories.
Movie theaters are going to die in our lifetime.
MUs definitely will.
But roleplay itself will live on forever.
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@catzilla said in pvp vs pvp:
Movie theaters are going to die in our lifetime.
MUs definitely will.I’m not so sure. My one kid asked for an old Gameboy for Christmas last year because they wanted to play an old game. My other kid loves playing 20+ year old PC games. Younger generations are making vinyl records increase in popularity. Storium, a close-cousin of MUs, raised 250k in a kickstarter a few years ago, though it suffered from some stumbles in execution since. Tabletop is growing in popularity again, and it’s a small leap from there to online play.
Servers like Evennia and Ares make MUs more approachable for newer generations, so I don’t think it’s impossible for the style to continue. We’ll see how it goes, I guess.
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@Tez said in pvp vs pvp:
@RedRocket said in pvp vs pvp:
Lame is not…
Do not.
Sorry to backtrack, carry on, just had to pull that one out and make it clear.
Thank you.
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@Faraday said in pvp vs pvp:
Servers like Evennia and Ares make MUs more approachable for newer generations
This is a joke.
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@RedRocket I’ve seen genuine no holds barred games developed and run but the last few i personally know of were invite only. Mostly because the runners don’t want oocly tiresome or showboating folks or want to curate their players to people they reasonably can be confident wont take it personally when something doesn’t go the way they expect.
I’ve played a soft majority of pvp friendly games in my life and honestly sometimes dealing with a big chunk of the pb attracted to them is just very tiring. I am not sure why you say it is the non pvp folks who are the whiners. My god half the reason old school pvp stuff took so long was the incessant whining and rules layering of the people most into it. Usually I was hoping one of them would just please off my PC by the end of many of the encounters so I could escape and not have to read their words anymore. I have never heard stronger whining or tantrums than on a pvp focused game.
That isn’t to say all pvp friendly folks are whiners, because they are not. But if you are very sensitive to people whining probably the best place is one that doesn’t do ooc communication very much. Those are out there too. Or were.
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@Pax
I thought I was pretty clear on that but if you need an itemized list…-
Let people play what they want (within whatever theme you have) even if they are the “bad guys” because those kinds of characters generate IC drama that staff doesn’t have to spend their limited time manufacturing.
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Make Chargen fast and easy to get a basic character so if you want to make an alt or if you want to kill off your character because you have grown tired of it you don’t have to spend weeks waiting to get back in the game.
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Make retirement easier by making it so you can create a bog standard character using a quick CG system then once you kill off your main in a dramatic event have the XP transfer from them to the new guy.
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Make factions actually matter. Give them territories to defend. This gives players something to RP off of outside of everyone hanging out at a doughnut shop.
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Make clear rules about PVP where you need a justifiable reason to be engaging in PVP. Someone entered enemy territory, they attacked you, they attacked someone you are close to, etc. Then if you think they are just being a douchenozzle and attacking you for no reason you can call in a staff member and have them make a judgement call. If the reason for the attack is lame the staffer can just say no, this isn’t happening, both of you go back to your homes and don’t start fights with each other in the future.
If the reason is legitimate and it’s because of your IC actions but you don’t want to deal with it, you should have the right to negotiate the outcome and skip the battle itself. Maybe you have better shit to do?
If you can’t come to an agreement on a reasonable conclusion without the fighting happening then you could set terms, (to the death, to incapacitation, being taken prisoner, etc.) for the battle and do the fight or if you really just don’t want to do the combat mechanics, choose to do a roll-off to see who wins. Say for example, you are playing WoD, you could both add up the dice you would roll for your primary attack and the dice you would roll for your primary defensive roll, pool them all together, then roll them. The other guy does the same, who ever gets the most successes wins the fight.
You can skip hours of combat with one die roll or if you want to make it even simpler, have both people roll 1d100+their total XP spent. Who ever rolls higher wins. Or you can both roll 1d100, see who gets the highest number to see who wins then look at the difference in the numbers and let that determine the severity of the consequences of the combat.
There are a lot of options that don’t involve having to use chunky combat rules. Lay those options out ahead of time and let people have a choice.
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Make it clear that going around picking fights for no reason will get you removed from the game. Also make it clear that just because you and one other person are in the game room it doesn’t mean that you are necessarily the only people in the room of the story. “I was mad and he was there so I picked a fight.” isn’t a valid IC reason for starting PVP. Unless the other player agrees to it you can just have them pick a fight with an NPC.
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Don’t tell people what they can and can not do in the privacy of their own latex sex dungeons. Do tell people they can’t go around banging on the subway without suffering consequences. Make those consequences IC. Have the cops show up at their door step with a warrant for their arrest. Make a post about their public fuck session on their faction board because someone posted a video of it on TicTak so everyone can role play about seeing it.
Make the results of breaking the rules an IC response as often as possible because that moves the story forward instead of grinding it to a stop.
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Do let people make stupid character concepts that you know will not work. Do also tell them why it probably won’t work out well for them. Maybe they are just new to whatever game you are running so they don’t know better? Maybe they want a challenge? Maybe they want to explore the dynamics of love and marriage by playing an ageing shoe salesman with a red-headed wife who he loves but can barely stand and two ungrateful kids? Let them do their thing.
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Do let people innovate. (Within reason) Don’t be such a rules lawyer that you lose sight of the goal of people playing fun characters. Let them try novel things.
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Do let people establish their own places of residence and customize them. Using coded apartment buildings you can rent is cool, but why not have coded houses that work the same way? Then if a player bails on the game, the rent comes due, the game sees they aren’t online for X number of days, then it kicks them off the lease and puts the house back up for rent with a default, fresh coat of paint, description.
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Do let them blow shit up from time to time just for fun and leave it 'sploded until a reasonable amount of repair time has passed then let the owner of the property re-build.
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Finally, and most importantly, don’t give a fuck about people’s feelings. Don’t punish people for telling dirty jokes or saying things that are offensive on the non-public com channels or in pages.
It’s great to have a SFW channel like Public or Chat but for faction chats and such you should do as little forced censoring as possible.
Players should all be adults, they shouldn’t need a staff member to protect them from hurtful words. If you don’t like what someone is saying, tell them so politely.
They should be an adult and respect your wishes or maybe they will tell you to fuck off with your bullshit, and that’s also okay!
You can tell them to go to hell and get ass-fucked with a pinapple then +ignore them because that’s also something adults do.
We don’t all have to agree or think the same way.
They will piss off enough people in your faction that eventually they won’t be able to enjoy the game and move on to a new place to play because no one wants to be around them.
Staff doesn’t need to step in, players don’t need Staff to fight their battles for them. Staff’s job shouldn’t be playing thought police.
Staff’s job should be enforcing the rules of the game system, whatever system that might be, and facilitating play for people who do actually want to be around each other.
This concludes my Ted Talk, thank you all for coming.
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@RedRocket said in pvp vs pvp:
A whole load of bollocks that tl;dr everyone who isn’t running what I want sucks.
News for you, Rocket: Everything you claim to want is out there. It’s just that it’s so unpopular that it might as well not be.
You don’t need a new game, you need to go back to 1999.
The high-conflict high-PvP players aren’t interested in being reasonable, for the most part; they want to win, and they want to do it over your corpse. And if they lose then you cheated and ye gods the whining.
So when you come and claim that you’re trying to be reasonable by wanting to play with all the people we’ve seen being unreasonable over and over and over for decades, it’s not really surprising that most of us just aren’t that interested.
Been there, done that. Read the book, watched the movie, rolled up characters in the RPG, played the game, wore the T-shirt, ate the meal, even had the branded lunchbox.
We tried this. It sucked. It sucked for the people trying to play a game, and it sucked for the people who wanted nothing but victory.
No thanks.
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@RedRocket said in pvp vs pvp:
- Finally, and most importantly, don’t give a fuck about people’s feelings. Don’t punish people for telling dirty jokes or saying things that are offensive on the non-public com channels or in pages.
All the things you mentioned already exist but this is really where you tell on yourself. You’re not a visionary, guy, you’re just an edgelord.
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@RedRocket said in pvp vs pvp:
- Finally, and most importantly, don’t give a fuck about people’s feelings. Don’t punish people for telling dirty jokes or saying things that are offensive on the non-public com channels or in pages.
Yeah… What? What offensive things, specifically, do you think ought to be allowed?
I think I can guess.
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@RedRocket said in pvp vs pvp:
Is there some thriving hub of young people out there playing some game I’ve never heard of?
Yes, many times over. Even in MUs.
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I wonder, truly, how much of this is from wanting the older style of game to make a resurgence, and how much of it is from wanting to be back in the life stage one was in when it was the norm.
But I don’t wonder enough to care about an answer.
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@RedRocket bro once again, some of us have played and GM’d plenty of PVP, and we love PVP, and we don’t run it anymore because it’s so onerous and toxic that it’s not worth it.
Just go play Star Wars AOA. I guarantee that it will check much of your list, lol
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@RedRocket said in pvp vs pvp:
@NotSanni
I’m not throwing a tantrum. I’m just telling you the truth as I see it. I watched these games that I loved go down the toilet because staff chose to coddle a few troublemakers and change the rules so that they would whine less.The damage may be irreversible but if it’s not, it’s certainly going to take a drastic and revolutionary new approach. That’s all I’m saying. What people are doing now isn’t working. Try something else. Hell, try anything else. Just stop making the same mistakes over and over and over. That’s all I ask. Stop listening to people who are clearly leading you down the wrong path. Do something new. Do something different.
Look at what worked in the past and what didn’t. Be objective. Don’t listen to people who want to make everything about them. Ask yourself, what can we do differently to attract and retain new players?
Surprise me! Please!
I want the hobby I used to love to be worth playing again.You continue to mount your weird defense in favor of using slurs and being politically incorrect.
Reevaluate your life.
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I think we can probably stop feeding this person the attention they’re craving.
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@tsar said in pvp vs pvp:
I think we can probably stop feeding this person the attention they’re craving.
you mean we should stop arguing with the guy who’s user name is a euphemism for dog penis? because that didn’t automatically target him as problematic to begin with…???
