pvp vs pvp
-
@RedRocket said in pvp vs pvp:
Lame is not a slur when it is used to describe a thing, only when it is used to describe a person.
It’s a synonym for disappointing, weak or unsatisfying that has been used for most of human history dating back to the early Germanic tribes that first used it to describe an animal with a non-functional of overly weak leg. You would put down your horse because it had a lame leg and couldn’t plow a field anymore.
It’s only considered a slur if you say a person is lame because you are advocating for them to be killed.
I’m very clearly not advocating for the murder of the people who run boring games.
Absolutely wild and inappropriate when someone says “please don’t use a slur” to go on a weird tirade.
All the red flags (no surprise, given your “GAMES ARE DYING BC THEY DON’T PLAY THE WAY I WANT THEM TO” attitude tho).
-
@NotSanni
I’m not saying that games are dying because they aren’t being run the way I want them to be played. I’m saying that they are dying because they are being run the way a small hand full of whiny forever-victims who instigate the problems they then complain about want.The more generic and baby proofed the games became the more the player base dwindled away. What is happening now isn’t working. What people did then was working. Back in the day there were hundreds of active players on at a time. Now you’re lucky to see five.
Maybe, just maybe, you might want to think about why it worked back then instead of just dismissing the only time the medium was actually successful at retaining a large player base because it hurt the feelings of a few bad actors who just want to stir up shit and make drama.
Every year your player bases shrinks because people don’t find the games engaging and every year you double down on doing the same things that don’t work.
How many times are you going to make the same mistakes? Creating a new game with a different setting that is basically the same thing as the last game that collapsed with a slightly different coat of paint on it is never going to work in the long run.
You need to do something that works and the only thing with a proven track record of working is letting people play what they want to play. It’s probably too late now anyway. Even if you did stop trying to shoehorn everyone into the same bland box I doubt you will be able to entice enough players to try the text only format.
The whiny bitches won. They got what they wanted. The games are exactly the way they wanted them - and that’s why no one is playing them any more.
-
@RedRocket said in pvp vs pvp:
And how’s that working out for you? The games are empty, the players who do still log in mostly sit and idle until one of their click logs in and only then does any rp actually happen.
Worked out awesome for me actually. Many happy players having fun. Thousands of RP logs. Great stories being told. To each their own.
-
-
@RedRocket said in pvp vs pvp:
I’m saying that they are dying because they are being run the way a small hand full of whiny forever-victims who instigate the problems they then complain about want.
The more generic and baby proofed the games became the more the player base dwindled away. What is happening now isn’t working. What people did then was working. Back in the day there were hundreds of active players on at a time. Now you’re lucky to see five.
Maybe, just maybe, you might want to think about why it worked back then instead of just dismissing the only time the medium was actually successful at retaining a large player base because it hurt the feelings of a few bad actors who just want to stir up shit and make drama.
Text-based games are dying because gaming mediums are changing. People who want their dopamine fix have tens of thousands of choices, very few of which need telnet to access. This is no longer the Wild Wild Web 1.0 of unbridled creativity spawned by techological limitations.
Young people getting started go to Discord because that’s where all the RP is now. Thousands upon thousands of servers joinable at a click. Infinite accessibility. MUSHing is kept alive because of a dedicated and committed group and the average age of people in that group is rapidly ticking upwards.
It’s pretty clear now you’re arguing in bad faith. Everyone has their personal preferences, but I don’t see anyone else in this thread so virulently lambasting others for having preferences different from their own.
-
@RedRocket I would rather play in a ghost town of a game, or not even play at all, than have to share space with people who crash out like you have. Your temper tantrum and sneering vitriol over people liking different things than you does nothing to help the case for PVP games. Quite the reverse.
So if you see nothing of value in the current MUSH community, might I be the first to invite you to keep on walking until you hit something else. Maybe try pickleball.
-
@Pax said in pvp vs pvp:
Maybe try pickleball.
I was going to suggest GTA RP servers. Those are rife with people just randomly whacking each other.
-
@RedRocket said in pvp vs pvp:
@NotSanni
I’m not saying that games are dying because they aren’t being run the way I want them to be played. I’m saying that they are dying because they are being run the way a small hand full of whiny forever-victims who instigate the problems they then complain about want.The more generic and baby proofed the games became the more the player base dwindled away. What is happening now isn’t working. What people did then was working. Back in the day there were hundreds of active players on at a time. Now you’re lucky to see five.
Maybe, just maybe, you might want to think about why it worked back then instead of just dismissing the only time the medium was actually successful at retaining a large player base because it hurt the feelings of a few bad actors who just want to stir up shit and make drama.
Every year your player bases shrinks because people don’t find the games engaging and every year you double down on doing the same things that don’t work.
How many times are you going to make the same mistakes? Creating a new game with a different setting that is basically the same thing as the last game that collapsed with a slightly different coat of paint on it is never going to work in the long run.
You need to do something that works and the only thing with a proven track record of working is letting people play what they want to play. It’s probably too late now anyway. Even if you did stop trying to shoehorn everyone into the same bland box I doubt you will be able to entice enough players to try the text only format.
The whiny bitches won. They got what they wanted. The games are exactly the way they wanted them - and that’s why no one is playing them any more.
What a deeply unpleasant way you choose to navigate through life. I can’t imagine going onto a forum, and then having the audacity to throw a tantrum because “The whiny bitches won”.
-
@RedRocket said in pvp vs pvp:
It’s like making a game set in the marvel cinematic universe but no one is allowed to play as the heroes or villains, they can only play normal people doing normal things.
YES, LET ME PLAY THE SPACE GOO!
@RedRocket said in pvp vs pvp:
They promised us a game of heroes fighting villains and delivered heroes trolling for sex scenes.
Bold of you to assume that the space goo was not intedned to be like 75% for trolling for sex scenes. Still fighting, sure, but ‘they only want smut’ did nothing to help here.
@MisterBoring said in pvp vs pvp:
Hell, one of the most popular MUSHes I can think of in recent years is Arx, and as far as I can tell (Arx players help me if I’m getting it wrong) it’s a Lords & Ladies game that was set in a high fantasy world, and while there was some darkness and nasty bits, they weren’t the regular thing in the game.
I specifically tried to add spooky darkness to a character twice, but could not haz (this ended up being fine, I only mention it for clarity. Edgelord (Edgelady?) Cunning Linguist were attempted.
@Faraday said in pvp vs pvp:
Why are you assuming that a lack of PVP means a game with no conflict?
PVP need not be physical combat, but it feels like games shy away from social combat (everyone take a shot, role/roll discourse is back!)
@RedRocket said in pvp vs pvp:
@Pax
[attempt at etymology]If you want to use Ænglisc as a defense, fine, but now you must your whole message in the language or not at all.
@RedRocket said in pvp vs pvp:
You would put down your horse because it had a lame leg and couldn’t plow a field anymore.
Bold of you to assume I would kill this horse.
@RedRocket said in pvp vs pvp:
I’m very clearly not advocating for the murder of the people who run boring games.
Bold of you to assume we dont advocate for the murder of people who run boring games. [Legal disclaimer, I am told I have to assure you this is a joke.]
@RedRocket said in pvp vs pvp:
[A bunch of] whiny bitch[ing]
Same game/different paint is all about the paint! Different +roll mechanics? Very handwobble. Exact same system but without Sex Pests? Highly appealing!
… Incidentally, sex pests are why social combat gets so much hate. The sex pests think they can nat 20 a seduction roll, and everyone else forgets that means lots of exposed squishy parts exposed for dusemboweling or the like. Have fun with it, I say.
Anyway, problem with widespread PVP is it leads to paranoia builds which is peak boring. Everybody gotta build a certain way lest they get telenuked.
Limited PVP has its place. Rules to keep things civil enough that it isnt just wanton murder and death for people who aren’t into that sort of thing. Alas, history shows bad actors will try to push beyond those limits to ruin fun for everyone… they dont only want to murder the PVP_OK characters, they also just have to kill the stripper with a heart of gold who just wants to go dancing every night.
Mummy Pun? MUMMY PUN!
She/her -
@NotSanni
I’m not throwing a tantrum. I’m just telling you the truth as I see it. I watched these games that I loved go down the toilet because staff chose to coddle a few troublemakers and change the rules so that they would whine less.The damage may be irreversible but if it’s not, it’s certainly going to take a drastic and revolutionary new approach. That’s all I’m saying. What people are doing now isn’t working. Try something else. Hell, try anything else. Just stop making the same mistakes over and over and over. That’s all I ask. Stop listening to people who are clearly leading you down the wrong path. Do something new. Do something different.
Look at what worked in the past and what didn’t. Be objective. Don’t listen to people who want to make everything about them. Ask yourself, what can we do differently to attract and retain new players?
Surprise me! Please!
I want the hobby I used to love to be worth playing again. -
@RedRocket why is it on others to make the game you want? There’s enough tools and know-how around for you to develop one to your requirements.
-
@Jennkryst said in pvp vs pvp:
@MisterBoring said in pvp vs pvp:
Hell, one of the most popular MUSHes I can think of in recent years is Arx, and as far as I can tell (Arx players help me if I’m getting it wrong) it’s a Lords & Ladies game that was set in a high fantasy world, and while there was some darkness and nasty bits, they weren’t the regular thing in the game.
I specifically tried to add spooky darkness to a character twice, but could not haz (this ended up being fine, I only mention it for clarity. Edgelord (Edgelady?) Cunning Linguist were attempted.
You could definitely die on Arx, it just wasn’t likely to be a PVP situation.
-
@Jennkryst said in pvp vs pvp:
Bold of you to assume that the space goo was not intedned to be like 75% for trolling for sex scenes.
Keeping it 100, I would be all up in that space goo if I was playing on a game with that as a species option. Remember Inque from Batman Beyond? She left an impression. Too bad she turned out to be such a scum bag.
-
@RedRocket said in pvp vs pvp:
I watched these games that I loved go down the toilet because staff chose to coddle a few troublemakers and change the rules so that they would whine less.
I’ve watched games I loved go down the toilet because staff coddled people like you. So we’re all in the same boat.
-
Imagine being so bored you spend an entire weekend self-tattling in front of the same community you feel owes you a good time.
If everyone else is the problem…ah, y’all know the rest.
-
@Hobbie
I’m not the one trying to run games and as I said, I don’t care if the game caters to me. I don’t have the time to dedicate to a game like I used to. It just pains me to see the people running the few remaining games making the same mistakes time and time again.It’s like watching Kamala Harris run her campaign into the ground because the DNC told her it was a brilliant idea to run the same playbook they used for Hillary Clinton and pay millions to hire the same consultants to run her campaign that Clinton had.
It’s like watching a football team keep making the same bad plays again and again because management thinks if they just keep trying, eventually it will work.
It’s like watching game or movie studio executives ruin projects because they think they know better than the writers and directors and no one stands up to them.
It’s like watching people tell the public that if we just keep giving the billionaires money trickle down economics will finally kick in and everyone will become well off.
I have reached a point in my life where I’m just sick and tired of watching people fuck up things because they listen to bad actors with a proven track record of being only out for themselves.
I’m not saying they have to do things my way, I’m just saying they are going to keep failing if they keep doing the same thing so maybe, try something that has worked before or something totally new!
Stop listening to the whiners who want to make everything safe and risk free. Be bold. Try new things! Innovate!
Or they can choose to keep making their games into, generic, bland cardboard boxes and be happy with hosting the few people who even know the hobby exists until they all die or old age and then the gaming medium will be lost forever. That’s also a choice.
If someone is going to be running games anyway, why keep doing it the way you can see with your own eyes is going to fail just like it has failed every time it’s ever been tried before? Stop doing things the way other people have told you is the right way and find your own way. That’s all I’m saying.
-
@RedRocket Do you realize that there were a lot of hugely popular games back in this heyday of MUs you’re referencing that also didn’t have PVP back then? Like, PVE games have existed and thrived since the 90s alongside the WoD and CoD MUs. It’s not that PVP is somehow the origin source and things evolved into PVE from there.
-
@Jennkryst said in pvp vs pvp:
@Faraday said in pvp vs pvp:
Why are you assuming that a lack of PVP means a game with no conflict?
PVP need not be physical combat, but it feels like games shy away from social combat (everyone take a shot, role/roll discourse is back!)
Social combat between PCs is still PVP in my book. No shade if that’s your jam, but it’s not mine. I still find plenty of storytelling opportunities rife with conflict while keeping the majority of that conflict between the PCs and NPCs.
(No group of humans ever gets along 100% of the time, so there’s always some degree of conflict between PCs. But it IS entirely possible to design a successful game without making that the focus/goal.)
-
What @Roz said.
Honestly, one of the more hilarious things about having been in this hobby since the Lynx was the web browser…
…is that WoD games are just the same as they were in 1998, but the gamerunners say they’re different. And sometimes propose stuff that was tossed in 1995 for sucking as a fresh solution to the flaws of the bad old days.
-
@RedRocket said in pvp vs pvp:
Surprise me! Please!
I want the hobby I used to love to be worth playing againAres code is right there, and I’m told it’s fairly easy. Evennia is there and a bit more. I’m sure there are repositories out there to try the things. Be rhe change you want to see!
@tsar said in pvp vs pvp:
@Jennkryst said in pvp vs pvp:
I specifically tried to add spooky darkness to a character twice, but could not haz (this ended up being fine, I only mention it for clarity. Edgelord (Edgelady?) Cunning Linguist were attempted.You could definitely die on Arx, it just wasn’t likely to be a PVP situation.
It was more in the application, I put a ‘I hear some people are secretly villainous, I see no indication this character is, but what if she is maybe?’ note hidden among other ideas, and they didnt take the bait… which is totally cool despite how much I gripe about it.
@RedRocket said in pvp vs pvp:
I’m not the one trying to run games and as I said, I don’t care if the game caters to me.
Only if they cater to numerous other people. Typically, it isn’t one problem player being a problem, it is a slew of them (aside from Jill, but she has quantity in a different way).
@RedRocket said in pvp vs pvp:
I have reached a point in my life where I’m just sick and tired of watching people fuck up things because they listen to bad actors with a proven track record of being only out for themselves.
To which I say again, be the change you want to see. If you are certain that if you build it, people will play… then build it.
@Faraday said in pvp vs pvp:
Social combat between PCs is still PVP in my book.
I mean, sure. It depends on the definition of PVP, of course. I would wager the majority counts it as something that risks loss of the character entirely (death) or messing with +sheet stuff (in an era of sanctity of merits, not as terrible as previously experienced). Even ignoring Social, you can have MENTAL PVP tasks, where you try to out-chess or design better clothes or whatever…
… depending on your definition. Further discussion can go into a fresh Role vs Roll thread, or reviving the last one (plz remember Necromancy gif). Or does this thread still count? I dunno, brain no think good.
