pvp vs pvp
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@RedRocket said in pvp vs pvp:
I watched these games that I loved go down the toilet because staff chose to coddle a few troublemakers and change the rules so that they would whine less.
I’ve watched games I loved go down the toilet because staff coddled people like you. So we’re all in the same boat.
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Imagine being so bored you spend an entire weekend self-tattling in front of the same community you feel owes you a good time.
If everyone else is the problem…ah, y’all know the rest.
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@Hobbie
I’m not the one trying to run games and as I said, I don’t care if the game caters to me. I don’t have the time to dedicate to a game like I used to. It just pains me to see the people running the few remaining games making the same mistakes time and time again.It’s like watching Kamala Harris run her campaign into the ground because the DNC told her it was a brilliant idea to run the same playbook they used for Hillary Clinton and pay millions to hire the same consultants to run her campaign that Clinton had.
It’s like watching a football team keep making the same bad plays again and again because management thinks if they just keep trying, eventually it will work.
It’s like watching game or movie studio executives ruin projects because they think they know better than the writers and directors and no one stands up to them.
It’s like watching people tell the public that if we just keep giving the billionaires money trickle down economics will finally kick in and everyone will become well off.
I have reached a point in my life where I’m just sick and tired of watching people fuck up things because they listen to bad actors with a proven track record of being only out for themselves.
I’m not saying they have to do things my way, I’m just saying they are going to keep failing if they keep doing the same thing so maybe, try something that has worked before or something totally new!
Stop listening to the whiners who want to make everything safe and risk free. Be bold. Try new things! Innovate!
Or they can choose to keep making their games into, generic, bland cardboard boxes and be happy with hosting the few people who even know the hobby exists until they all die or old age and then the gaming medium will be lost forever. That’s also a choice.
If someone is going to be running games anyway, why keep doing it the way you can see with your own eyes is going to fail just like it has failed every time it’s ever been tried before? Stop doing things the way other people have told you is the right way and find your own way. That’s all I’m saying.
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@RedRocket Do you realize that there were a lot of hugely popular games back in this heyday of MUs you’re referencing that also didn’t have PVP back then? Like, PVE games have existed and thrived since the 90s alongside the WoD and CoD MUs. It’s not that PVP is somehow the origin source and things evolved into PVE from there.
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@Jennkryst said in pvp vs pvp:
@Faraday said in pvp vs pvp:
Why are you assuming that a lack of PVP means a game with no conflict?
PVP need not be physical combat, but it feels like games shy away from social combat (everyone take a shot, role/roll discourse is back!)
Social combat between PCs is still PVP in my book. No shade if that’s your jam, but it’s not mine. I still find plenty of storytelling opportunities rife with conflict while keeping the majority of that conflict between the PCs and NPCs.
(No group of humans ever gets along 100% of the time, so there’s always some degree of conflict between PCs. But it IS entirely possible to design a successful game without making that the focus/goal.)
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What @Roz said.
Honestly, one of the more hilarious things about having been in this hobby since the Lynx was the web browser…
…is that WoD games are just the same as they were in 1998, but the gamerunners say they’re different. And sometimes propose stuff that was tossed in 1995 for sucking as a fresh solution to the flaws of the bad old days.
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@RedRocket said in pvp vs pvp:
Surprise me! Please!
I want the hobby I used to love to be worth playing againAres code is right there, and I’m told it’s fairly easy. Evennia is there and a bit more. I’m sure there are repositories out there to try the things. Be rhe change you want to see!
@tsar said in pvp vs pvp:
@Jennkryst said in pvp vs pvp:
I specifically tried to add spooky darkness to a character twice, but could not haz (this ended up being fine, I only mention it for clarity. Edgelord (Edgelady?) Cunning Linguist were attempted.You could definitely die on Arx, it just wasn’t likely to be a PVP situation.
It was more in the application, I put a ‘I hear some people are secretly villainous, I see no indication this character is, but what if she is maybe?’ note hidden among other ideas, and they didnt take the bait… which is totally cool despite how much I gripe about it.
@RedRocket said in pvp vs pvp:
I’m not the one trying to run games and as I said, I don’t care if the game caters to me.
Only if they cater to numerous other people. Typically, it isn’t one problem player being a problem, it is a slew of them (aside from Jill, but she has quantity in a different way).
@RedRocket said in pvp vs pvp:
I have reached a point in my life where I’m just sick and tired of watching people fuck up things because they listen to bad actors with a proven track record of being only out for themselves.
To which I say again, be the change you want to see. If you are certain that if you build it, people will play… then build it.
@Faraday said in pvp vs pvp:
Social combat between PCs is still PVP in my book.
I mean, sure. It depends on the definition of PVP, of course. I would wager the majority counts it as something that risks loss of the character entirely (death) or messing with +sheet stuff (in an era of sanctity of merits, not as terrible as previously experienced). Even ignoring Social, you can have MENTAL PVP tasks, where you try to out-chess or design better clothes or whatever…
… depending on your definition. Further discussion can go into a fresh Role vs Roll thread, or reviving the last one (plz remember Necromancy gif). Or does this thread still count? I dunno, brain no think good.
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No.
What is irritating me here, now, and far more than it should be, is the endless repetition of the burden of work upon other people. You are seeing something you do not like, and you are insisting that others must try it your way.
Do not do this.
Your preferences are unique just like everyone else. It is not your place to say that they are wrong (unless it’s illegal or really gross, we have other threads for that). If others like PvE games, they do not deserve to be lumped into a category of play-it-safe whingers. They are doing what they like, same as you.
If you are seeing the same mistakes made time and time again, the onus is on you to fix them to your satisfaction if it is within your power. Correcting the catastrophic freefall of the world’s economy is a bit out of our reach but learning how to code Penn or spinning up an Ares game is very much not insurmountable. So stop listening to us, and yourself, getting upset on the internet. Be bold, try new things. Innovate!
If you don’t see it, make it. That is the essence of creativity.
Finally, half of those analogies fell flat on me because I’m not American. I know nothing about yank politics or weird handegg besides that they exist and people are very noisy about them. I will not see things your way, and that is not something you can always change.
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@Hobbie said in pvp vs pvp:
You are seeing something you do not like, and you are insisting that others must try it your way.
I literally just wrote a small essay about how I don’t care if they do it “my way” or not. I just want them to consider that what hey have been doing isn’t working and try anything actually different instead of just hanging a new theme or setting on the same frame work full of bad ideas that have failed for decades.
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@RedRocket
“wrote a small essay about how I don’t care.”
Stand in front of a mirror and say those words out loud. -
@Muscle-Car said in pvp vs pvp:
@RedRocket
“wrote a small essay about how I don’t care.”
Stand in front of a mirror and say those words out loud.Is RedRocket Ghost or their cousin or something? Reminds me of their long posts about how they don’t care and to remind us they left the hobby 40 years ago.
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@catzilla
This is another one that doesn’t really read like Ghost’s MO to me, unless he’s decided to change his personality for like the fifth time. He also never had an issue with PVE games, whatever one can say about his other annoying qualities. But I’ve been wrong before.I want something else to get me through this
Semi-charmed kinda life, baby, baby
I want something else, I'm not listening when you say good-byeShe/Her or They/Them
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@catzilla One of the most astonishing things about niche rp communities is how new sigh-inducers so often reproduce the kind of personality one imagines they’d only meet once in a lifetime.
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@Third-Eye said in pvp vs pvp:
@catzilla
This is another one that doesn’t really read like Ghost’s MO to me, unless he’s decided to change his personality for like the fifth time. He also never had an issue with PVE games, whatever one can say about his other annoying qualities. But I’ve been wrong before.I also think that Ghost hates all PBs (including AI, but I could be remembering wrong). But this person has a similar energy.
10 paragraphs about the topic
“But I don’t care.” -
@Jennkryst said in pvp vs pvp:
Be the change you want to see!
I wish I could. I really do. I don’t want to get into details about it but when I say I don’t have the time left in life to dedicate to gaming, I mean I don’t have that much time left in life. I’m only on this forum so much today because I’m stuck in bed with an injury.
Basically:
These kind of games really helped me when I was young. I want the next generation to have that same opportunity to find themselves lost in strange new worlds. That’s why I am on here ranting about this. I don’t want this medium to die out with us and it looks like it will.
Am I wrong? Is there some thriving hub of young people out there playing some game I’ve never heard of? It looks like this hobby has gone to seed because it’s been made so generic and uninteresting it can’t offer anything worth the effort of the barrier to entry.
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@catzilla
A hilarious amount of That Guy’s hatred of PBs feels tied up in ‘I associated with Emma Stone at a barbecue once and she told me how much she hated people using her likeness’. Which I kinda love because I’m a person who lives in Phoenix, and people developing a whole personality around one association they had with Emma Stone (she went to high school in a 'burb of the Metro area) is kind of a meme for a certain person in the late 30s/early 40s demographic who came up here. -
@RedRocket said in pvp vs pvp:
I want the next generation to have that same opportunity to find themselves lost in strange new worlds.
Am I wrong? Is there some thriving hub of young people out there playing some game I’ve never heard of?
Yes. As someone stated earlier, they’re all on Discord, JCINK, tumblr, etc.
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@RedRocket said in pvp vs pvp:
I literally just wrote a small essay about how I don’t care if they do it “my way” or not. I just want them to consider that what hey have been doing isn’t working and try anything actually different instead of just hanging a new theme or setting on the same frame work full of bad ideas that have failed for decades.
I don’t understand what these “frameworks full of bad ideas” are. Is it just… PVE over PVP? Is that the “bad ideas”?
If enough people want to play something, generally a few of them will get together and prop the thing up. If there’s a lack of hardcore, rawdog PVP games out there, I think what you’re seeing is a reflection of evolving preference.
If PVE games were the obvious doomed failures you make them out to be, they wouldn’t be the bulk of what people are running and playing nowadays.
And if you just absolutely hate that, which you seem to, then as other people have pointed out, you have every tool and resource at your disposal to create something different. And if you can’t be arsed to do that and you’re just going to keep on keepin’ on about how everything is terrible and bad, then my brother in crisis, that truly sounds like a you problem.
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Oh well, I guess the hobby will just die with us then.
We had a good run! It was fun while it lasted.
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No, no. it’s MY advice you gotta take, and MY preferred style of game you gotta build or the hobby will die.
Sheesh, is that not obvious?
