How dangerous is VASpider?
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@Tributary said in How dangerous is VASpider?:
I called Spider in and said, you said you’d be cooperative and share plots, but you’re engaging in manipulative behaviors. A lie of omission is still a lie, and people think your behavior is shady. What’s more, I think your behavior is shady, and if you keep it up, I’m going to ask you to leave my game for the good of others. Your presence here is a kindness because Cobalt is a pushover, but I am not, so clean up your act or get gone. And Spider insisted that they’d followed the rules to the letter and that people were reading too much into it all and it was all just perception. I was like, you have to follow the spirit of the law and perception is important. Perception informs reality, and as such, you’ve got to convince my players that you’re following the rules and playing with them cooperatively, not me.
I had a very similar conversation with them about their behavior on Haunted Memories. Their response was to try to convince me that I ought to put them on a PIP with clear guidelines and regular check-ins and coaching sessions to ensure their behavior was in compliance and meeting expectations, because that’s what they would have to do with an underperforming employee at work.
There are definitely people who will use “I am following the rules exactly as they’re laid out!” as both a hammer and a shield if they are allowed to. Spider is one of them.
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@Tributary Agreed.
I think the main “danger” of Spider, outside of problems for those who have been directly manipulated etc, is their… pervasiveness. In MUing, at the very least, they have a tendency to get in to some position of mediocre authority because it’s a job that needs doing… and before you really know what’s going on they’ve carved out a niche for themselves and have way more authority than they should.
@Rinel if your friend is part of any online communities with Spider, they should probably stay near to an exit. The shun and shame stick is their second favourite weapon after surprise, surprise and fear… never mind.
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Wasn’t it Spider who lied about having cancer to get sympathy (and money?)? And Surreality would certainly say they were were dangerous as they did thousands of dollars in damage to Surr’s home and refused to pay a cent.
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If VASpider was my coworker…
Would I be cordial and potentially even friendly to them at work? You bet!
Would I go to an after work social event where they’d be present? Certainly!
Would I hang out with them one on one after work? Probably not.
Would they be invited to my D&D game? Absolutely not.
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@SpaceKhomeini said in How dangerous is VASpider?:
A friend of mine sent me a vaspider tumblr meme last year. Said friend had never mu*d ever.
I laughed until I cried because this world is too fucking weird,
Your friend and I must move in the same meme circles.
I don’t have any experience with VAS that I know of, they way predate my forays into MUSH, but I’ve seen their posts on social media, double taked, then tapped a more “in the know” friend to confirm it’s the same one.
Weirdly small world tbh. I guess the same traits that would predispose a person towards staffing a text game would also lend themselves towards small-time internet celebrity status?
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VASpider is probably not physically dangerous. Emotionally, they’re a heinous person and I would steer far away.
(Also, is it ‘he’ now? I can’t keep track, last I heard they went by ‘they’.)
In Occam I trust.
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The danger Spider poses is likely not in actual violence, but if allowed, they will take over your life and destroy you mentally, emotionally, and financially. They will lie, pretend to not be themself, stalk you. They will find your IRL phone number. They will bypass blocks. They will find your other accounts. They will convince you they have changed, including months-long efforts, only to almost immediately drag you right back into abusive patterns. They will purposefully befriend your friends and then lie to you about those friends and to those friends about you to isolate you and make you dependent on them.
The kind of danger Spider poses can’t be understated - when someone stabs you, there is a clear line that’s been crossed. You can prosecute them for assault. You can go to the hospital.
What Spider does will stay with you for the rest of your life.
Following them on tumblr or bluesky or whatever is fine. As far as I know, they have vaguely progressive and positive takes on social media. The danger lies in being friends with them, and especially in letting any kind of sexual or romantic entanglements happen. Do not engage. Do not DM with Spider. Don’t go to a Discord with them in it, or invite them to yours.
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He and they both, with I believe a preference for he.
@RiotDawn said in How dangerous is VASpider?:
Following them on tumblr or bluesky or whatever is fine. As far as I know, they have vaguely progressive and positive takes on social media. The danger lies in being friends with them, and especially in letting any kind of sexual or romantic entanglements happen. Do not engage. Do not DM with Spider. Don’t go to a Discord with them in it, or invite them to yours.
Perfect. Ty. There’s no risk of any of that happening. I appreciate it.
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And this is why I don’t Discord and am selective about what I share, etc.
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I don’t know if it’s fully fair to judge someone forever for who they were in the past, but that being said, I was on a game with them a few years ago and the behavior described in these older and linked threads is still going strong.
Spider is an intelligent person. They’re self-aware. They know they have these issues. They’re apologetic and explanatory about them. But it doesn’t seem to stop the issues from cropping up, so I eventually politely severed ties and went on my way.
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@Val said in How dangerous is VASpider?:
I don’t know if it’s fully fair to judge someone forever for who they were in the past
In general, I’d agree to a point. I’d perhaps not judge someone, but would be wary of them based on prior behaviour until change has been demonstrated - simply for my own safety/sanity.
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Less dangerous than a heaping handful of other manipulative liars in the hobby.
This is not because Spider is better, but because people will believe you when you tell them Spider is being a manipulative choad.
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@RiotDawn The danger also extended to friends of people they were ‘friends’ or close with. Not just the people they “like”. It seemed as though if they felt like someone was getting “too much” attention they’d make every effort to drive them off… not only with narcissistic tactics to isolate friends but with seriously toxic and insidious social manipulation and malicious gossip for those that they felt were a threat to their “friendships”. They have done this across mediums and social platforms and over years.
They don’t have to be grooming someone to abuse them.
It’s entirely reasonable to use caution and clear boundaries in future interactions with someone like this. If they’ve changed, they will understand.
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@TNP said in How dangerous is VASpider?:
Wasn’t it Spider who lied about having cancer to get sympathy (and money?)? And Surreality would certainly say they were were dangerous as they did thousands of dollars in damage to Surr’s home and refused to pay a cent.
Holy damn, I had forgotten about that story. I remember when Surr first talked about it. I believe they said it was ‘back cancer’ or something like that. That’s probably too mean to say it like that, but goddamn, we digging up some old old WORA lore.
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I’ve only interacted with VASpider on a MU* once to my knowledge.
It was a Star Trek MUSH (I forget the game’s name) and they decided that they didn’t like my character for some reason.
What followed was my being pretty ostracized on the game and barely having any interaction with others. I just… quietly slipped away eventually.
Now, I don’t know for certain if the two things are related (VASpider hating my character and the ostracization), but given the pattern of behavior others have noted with this person… well, it is suspicious.
Of course, it could just be that my character just didn’t jive with anyone there.
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@STD Star Trek Anomaly? Early to mid 2000s?
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@Adora Possibly?
I really don’t remember the name of the game. It was mid 2000s, though, so that’s quite possible.
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Might’ve been Gamma One? Which I think was the Anomaly successor. It wasn’t a game I stuck on but it is the only place I can say I played with VASpider. I was very idle so it was not an interesting experience, but I do remember they played an Engineering character.
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@Third-Eye said in How dangerous is VASpider?:
Might’ve been Gamma One? Which I think was the Anomaly successor. It wasn’t a game I stuck on but it is the only place I can say I played with VASpider. I was very idle so it was not an interesting experience, but I do remember they played an Engineering character.
It might’ve been Gamma One, then. I do remember VASpider played an Engineer.
I played Ivy, the new generation of Long-Term Medical Hologram that the Jupiter Station Holographic Research Institute swore would never, ever develop sapience, we promise totally.
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Never did know how to feel about holograms developing sentience. Data is an accomplishment so unique no one has ever been able to replicate him, but also digital intelligence is so easy to create that the dudes who program holograms can create it on accident?
EDIT: wait this thread is supposed to be about VASpider
