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    Liberation MUSH

    Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Rough and Rowdy
    399 Posts 66 Posters 75.0k Views
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    • D
      De Villefort @Pavel
      last edited by De Villefort

      @Pavel
      And to be fair, most of the comic book consumer base is switches not buttons.
      The studios are probably just targeting the people they think will give them the most money.
      Horny teenage toggles just waiting for someone to turn them on.

      light switch

      PavelP hellfrogH 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • PavelP
        Pavel @De Villefort
        last edited by

        @De-Villefort said in Liberation MUSH:

        And to be fair, most of the comic book consumer base is switches

        I assume they’re more bottoms who pretend to be switches to seem more interesting.

        He/Him. Opinions and views are solely my own unless specifically stated otherwise.
        BE AN ADULT

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        • D
          De Villefort @Pavel
          last edited by De Villefort

          @Pavel
          Hahaha!
          Switches and buttons (Penis and vagina), not switches and bottoms.
          But also, I agree.

          I was trying not to be crude while saying that the comic book fan base is a total sausage fest.

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          • TezT
            Tez Administrators
            last edited by Tez

            Let’s not be reductive genitalia-essentialists about gender no matter where we are in the forum.

            she/they

            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 17
            • hellfrogH
              hellfrog @De Villefort
              last edited by

              @De-Villefort said in Liberation MUSH:

              And to be fair, most of the comic book consumer base is switches not buttons.

              This is a broad assumption that is probably not accurate. Every stat I see seems to be parroting claims made in 2014 or 2017, where men were deemed to be between 64% and 54% of readership of ‘comic books’.

              This is market research, and clearly - CLEARLY - people who don’t identify as switches are making up enough of the target audience to result in ch-ch-ch-changes

              fr fr
              (she/her)

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              • AriaA
                Aria
                last edited by

                Here. Have some statistics from 2019.

                Note that this doesn’t break down “What percentage of comic book readers in the United States are men versus what percentage are women?”, but rather “What percentage of adults say they are fans of comic books?”

                There is a statistically significant discrepancy between genders.

                MisterBoringM hellfrogH 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • MisterBoringM
                  MisterBoring @Aria
                  last edited by

                  @Aria said in Liberation MUSH:

                  Here. Have some statistics from 2019.

                  I was curious about the numbers and they seem to be behind a pretty hefty paywall.

                  Proud Member of the Pro-Mummy Alliance

                  PavelP AriaA 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • PavelP
                    Pavel @MisterBoring
                    last edited by

                    @MisterBoring The stats themselves are, but the abstract is readable:

                    “The graph shows the share of adults who are fans of comic books in the United States as of April 2019, sorted by gender. The data reveals that 43 percent of men said that they were fans of comics books, compared to 24 percent of women.”

                    He/Him. Opinions and views are solely my own unless specifically stated otherwise.
                    BE AN ADULT

                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                    • AriaA
                      Aria @MisterBoring
                      last edited by Aria

                      @MisterBoring said in Liberation MUSH:

                      @Aria said in Liberation MUSH:

                      Here. Have some statistics from 2019.

                      I was curious about the numbers and they seem to be behind a pretty hefty paywall.

                      Ahhh, sorry about that. It was 43% of adult men and 24% of adult women. So not wildly different than what you’d see from older statistics.

                      If you do want to see older statistics, there’s an interesting spreadsheet here that breaks comics related search terms down by publishing house, with some pretty massive disparities between publishers - 12.5% women readership for Antarctic Press (Robotech), versus 64.71% for JC Comics (who I’ve literally never heard of) and 62.26% for Slave Labor Graphics (publishers of Johnny the Homicidal Maniac, Lenore, etc.).

                      Interestingly, the manga related terms skewed much more heavily female than other categories. But bear in mind that data is from 2013, so it’s a decade out of date.

                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                      • somasatoriS
                        somasatori
                        last edited by

                        Shitty MUSH idea, 7/31/2023: Johnny the Homicidal Maniac: the MUSH using a combination of FATE Accelerated for character sheets and FS3 for combat.

                        they/them

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                        • A
                          Adora
                          last edited by Adora

                          I suspect part of the change in demographics is that nerdy things aren’t being gatekept quite as hard for women and femmes, and are more easily accessed online.

                          No more do you have to walk into a comic shop or a TT gaming store to buy stuff, only for all conversation, and laughter, die as a group of nerdy guys glare at you and whisper angrily because you dared to enter their domain, like you just walked into their damn living room instead of a place of business, all for the crime of being a woman or feminine presenting person.

                          AriaA 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 10
                          • AriaA
                            Aria @Adora
                            last edited by

                            @Adora said in Liberation MUSH:

                            No more do you have to walk into a comic shop or a TT gaming store to buy stuff, only for all conversation, and laughter, die as a group of nerdy guys glare at you and whisper angrily because you dared to enter their domain, like you just walked into their damn living room instead of a place of business, all for the crime of being a woman or feminine presenting person.

                            JFC, if only that was the weirdest and worst thing that ever happened to me in the local comic/gaming shop…

                            The one where I went to high school was mostly just silent shock and awkward staring. The one where I went to college I maintain was actively dangerous to women.

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                            • D
                              De Villefort @Aria
                              last edited by

                              @Aria
                              The world would be a better place if more comic book stores hired women to station their front counters.
                              It might ease the nerds into being normal around women by giving them regular exposure to girl-cooties.

                              A 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                              • GashlycrumbG
                                Gashlycrumb
                                last edited by

                                I feel very fortunate that the comic-book and gaming store of my teens did almost always have a woman at the counter.

                                And very fortunate that now most of the gaming stores in town are places where hot trans girls want YOU to play Magic: The Gathering with them.

                                "This is Liberty Hall; you can spit on the mat and call the cat a bastard!"
                                – A. Bertram Chandler

                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 8
                                • M
                                  mietze
                                  last edited by

                                  Probably depends. Relying on women to give men attention as a means of making them less inappropriate if they are steeped in a culture where men tell each other they are owed sex, dominion, and it’s women’s fault if they don’t feel like a strong man and no matter their behavior they are entitled to female attention of their choosing-- it just doesn’t work.

                                  Just ask any woman who was raised in and especially spent a portion of their adult life in a fundamentalist religious group.

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 10
                                  • A
                                    Adora @De Villefort
                                    last edited by

                                    @De-Villefort said in Liberation MUSH:

                                    @Aria
                                    It might ease the nerds into being normal around women by giving them regular exposure to girl-cooties.

                                    Or it would give said nerds a constant target to creep on and abuse and behave inappropriately with due to an inherent power imbalance of the paying customer and someone just trying to earn enough money to pay their bills.

                                    What needs to happen is for their fellow nerdy guys to chime in and say “this behavior isn’t okay, stop acting like a goddamn incel just because Mia turned you down for a date in 7th grade.”

                                    It’s not on women, or any other marginalized group, to help heal people actively bigoted toward them.

                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 16
                                    • M
                                      mietze
                                      last edited by

                                      Also I have to say that most “nerds” that I was around were actually very normal guys. Maybe more quiet until the game started? Far less creepy than the religious nuts I was used to. Sensitive towards how others might feel. Or on the spectrum. I felt safer with them than I did with my former youth group. I did notice though at conventions and more comics oriented stores that I tended to feel less safe, but there was a lot different cultures there than at the small game (rpgs/cards) store in college. In fact it was some of my tabletop buddies that noticed the gross convention behavior stuff the first time I attended one before I did and really the first time in my entire life to that point I’d seen any men take other men to task for their predatory behavior rather than assume the woman was inviting the attention somehow. It was shocking to me.

                                      I did meet other women at conventions and via mushing and that frankly was the best part esp in the days of assumptions about how real girls wouldn’t be interested. My older kids embraced gamer geekism and over the years I’ve been thrilled to see how different their gaming conventions have looked from when I first started going. But that is more about people showing up and seizing enjoyment and directing programming for themselves not trying to train misogynistic men. I wonder if there might be less of them in some gatherings not so much because they are finally getting the attention owed them but because they’re not comfortable joining in where they don’t feel like they are catered to/bad behavior is accepted.

                                      But there’s still plenty of it. And still plenty of people who blame women not giving them enough attention for it.

                                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 6
                                      • hellfrogH
                                        hellfrog @Aria
                                        last edited by

                                        @Aria I don’t really trust a paywalled article where I can’t see any type of breakdown about how they came to this conclusion or what the polling size was, etc.

                                        fr fr
                                        (she/her)

                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                        • WizzW
                                          Wizz
                                          last edited by

                                          yeah, I’m just going to say from deeply frustrating personal experience that toxic “nerd culture” has nothing to do with a lack of exposure. That kinda fits their narrative, because-- hey surprise-- it’s transactional. “I’m shitty towards women because they haven’t paid attention to me.”

                                          but like if your default state is “shitty unless” your problems are much, much deeper. It took most of my 20’s to realize some dudes in my tight-knit group of friends didn’t need long talks about how we were raised to think a certain way, because they were beyond talking. They actively thrived in and enjoyed their shitty views, and that is just the unavoidable depressing truth about a lot of “proud nerd” men.

                                          somasatoriS JennJ 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 9
                                          • somasatoriS
                                            somasatori @Wizz
                                            last edited by

                                            @Wizz said in Liberation MUSH:

                                            but like if your default state is “shitty unless” your problems are much, much deeper. It took most of my 20’s to realize some dudes in my tight-knit group of friends didn’t need long talks about how we were raised to think a certain way, because they were beyond talking. They actively thrived in and enjoyed their shitty views, and that is just the unavoidable depressing truth about a lot of “proud nerd” men.

                                            Along with their probably life-long misogyny, “proud nerd” men are also, at least in my experience, extremely hostile towards LGBTQ+ people (and I would say especially towards their male friends/gaming partners who come out to them, I’ve gotten the “oh gross! are you going to hit on me” reaction from them more than anyone else that it made me zoom back into the closet), and there’s definitely a certain cohort of dudes who really love to say they’re not racist, but…

                                            I always come back to this time when I was just starting college in the early 00s and joined a D&D club, where someone cornered me to tell me about their homebrew world that had an “only humans” gimmick, but there were still racial modifiers. That certainly wasn’t the only time that I heard some fucked up racist shit from gamers, but it was definitely the most egregious outside of WORA.

                                            they/them

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