It is my opinion that there is a significant difference between the log that Cobalt posted and the log that the other person posted, yes.
Don’t forget we moved!
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Posts made by IoleRae
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RE: Log Posting Standards
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RE: Log Posting Standards
@Pax said in Log Posting Standards:
This is what abusers do. They humiliate you by showing everyone that you were OK with what was happening up until a point.
This log wasn’t posted to convince us of anything. It wasn’t posted to make Macha look better. It was posted to humiliate someone she felt humiliated by, because she was rejected and reported.
This is my concern.
The other party may not even be on this site to ask for it to come down.
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RE: Macha Awareness (And Unappreciation) thread
Yeah, I get it, and I’ve dealt with her specifically. I wasn’t accusing you (or anyone else) of anything. There’s been ‘if’ language in relation to her disability, and I was suggesting that we not speculate.
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RE: Macha Awareness (And Unappreciation) thread
I have no good feelings for Macha and everything possible to be able to identify her should be shared, but I do think that speculation as to whether or not she’s as disabled or sick as she says she is should probably just not happen.
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RE: Elder Tale Online Discussion
Are you Mercutio of ye olden days back when The Storyteller’s Circle was still around? I remember him being a good dude.
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RE: Log Posting Standards
I genuinely think that the mod team here can tell the difference, and that telling that difference is both a- the whole reason for mods, and b- the hardest part of your job.
“I may not always be able to define it, but I know what it looks like.”
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RE: Log Posting Standards
I am honestly very, very upset, putting myself in NAMEDELETED’s position. I genuinely do not understand how given the entire context of the situation, ‘hands off’ is the correct approach. Y’all have context. Y’all know this isn’t positive. You “suspect” but…won’t act without that suspicion confirmed. “pick and choose” what is and isn’t against the rules is the role of a moderator.
Somebody is being victimized, and we are perpetuating and providing their abuser a platform to continue.
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RE: Log Posting Standards
@Pavel said in Enjoy the Reads!! (Admin: ETA a content warning. It's THE LOG from The Pack thread.):
@GF said in Enjoy the Reads!! (Admin: ETA a content warning. It's THE LOG from The Pack thread.):
But we know how the recipient feels: they already reported this incident to Cobalt as harassment
No, we know how the recipient feels about the incident in the log, not about the log being posted. The admin team here is only concerned with the latter.
We don’t know who the poster is, or their intentions. And we aren’t going to discourage people from posting logs unless their intention to harass (or otherwise break our few rules) is clear, or the individuals concerned make it clear to us that they feel harassed.
Do I think the poster is foolish for posting these logs without comment? Yes.
Is that against the rules? No.I’m very disappointed. This log being here is harassment; it is so bad that reading it made Cobalt shut down her game. If people aren’t joking, it’s been triggering people. This is…harassment, this is obviously harassment, and the victim not showing up and going ‘please take it down’ – that’s…I don’t understand the reasoning behind this.
“We have no proof that the abuser intended to harass the victim by posting this, so it’s not harassment.” wtf. What the actual fuck. This isn’t a debate, this isn’t a discussion, nothing helpful or positive or constructive can come out of this log. There’s nothing to talk about, there’s nothing to verify, there’s no function this log serves beyond harassment. Cobalt already posted enough of it.
“We don’t know how the victim feels.” Yeah, but that doesn’t mean we need to enable them to be further victimized using our tools.
“Light moderation” is no excuse for condoning harassment. HARASSMENT is the whole reason we need mods at all.
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RE: Enjoy the Reads!! (Admin: ETA a content warning. It's THE LOG from The Pack thread.)
@bear_necessities said in Enjoy the Reads!! (Admin: ETA a content warning. It's THE LOG from The Pack thread.):
I don’t understand why this was posted again, someone explain.
It was an attempt to shame the other player, at my guess, by including their name where the first log took their name out – I further suspect that this log has been selectively and slightly edited to make Mackenzie look better. Some rolls removed and others left, for example.
It also includes spicy poses that I don’t think were in the first one, which can cause a lot of embarrassment for somebody to have their poses posted like that.
tl;dr: this is an attempt at revenge on the player in question. Macha is incredibly vindictive.
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RE: Enjoy the Reads!! (Admin: ETA a content warning. It's THE LOG from The Pack thread.)
Can you take the non-Mackenzie character name out of the posts, please?
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RE: Game Handing Overs
I’m not really sure what you’re getting at. I said it should never ever be done LIGHTLY, I didn’t say it should never ever be done.
It is my opinion that handing a database copy off to somebody else is abdicating responsibility for that data. Once it leaves my control, I can do nothing in relation to protecting it. As a game lead making hiring decisions, I retain control.
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RE: Game Handing Overs
@Faraday said in Game Handing Overs:
@IoleRae said in Game Handing Overs:
I’ve left a game when they hired a known problematic coder before, yes. Generally, I trust the game lead if I’m going to play there, and that extends to their staffing choices.
Sure but we’re not talking about an individual choice of someone deciding to leave a game over their staffing choices. We’re talking about the ethical considerations of “you can’t turn over a game because it’d be turning over everyone’s private data.” I’m not disagreeing with the notion, per se, just questioning how it’s fundamentally different from bringing on a new staffer.
Responsibility.
I have an ethical responsibility as a game lead to hire people who are not going to abuse access to PII, or to deal with them immediately if they do.
I also have an ethical responsibility as a game lead not to hand over a copy of the database that contains PII to random Bob. Could they get it without my intervention? Sure, it happens. Once it’s out of my control though, it’s out of my control. I have abdicated responsibility by giving it away.
I have an ethical responsibility in relation to that data, whether that’s providing access or providing a copy. Access and a copy are different, but it is the same ethical concern – it’s just the solution is different, because the format of the risk is different.
Every game lead ABSOLUTELY has an ethical responsibility to not hire someone that’s going to abuse their access to PII. I did not realize this needed to be said.
And I don’t think “somebody could abuse their trust or you could make a wrong hiring choice” changes the ethics, either.
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RE: Game Handing Overs
@Faraday said in Game Handing Overs:
While I don’t want to trivialize the conern, I can’t help but wonder if someone would have the same objection if staff brought on a new Wizard (in Penn/Tiny/Rhost terms)? Or a new coder, in Ares? Either would basically have unfettered access to all private info in the game regardless of handing over reins.
I’ve left a game when they hired a known problematic coder before, yes. Generally, I trust the game lead if I’m going to play there, and that extends to their staffing choices. If their hire screws up, there’s still a person (game lead) to take responsibility and address the situation, including getting RL authorities involved if needed. So the concern exists, but it’s addressed in different fashion.
FWIW, I’m making an admin command for Ares that will clear out private info, similar to what’s done when a char idles out or goes on the roster. The pragmatic issue though is how someone would reclaim their character after the wipe - how would you know who was who if everything got wiped.
I love this so much.
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RE: Game Handing Overs
I’ve seen it work a couple of times, but mostly it fails – all of the successes had the game lead handing it off to somebody who was already involved and invested on staff side, so it was just a case of changing who wore the pointy hat. Or a game had a triumvate or similar and that structure changed.
The ethical issues are related to PII and giving somebody access to info they didn’t have before. It’s a big one, and this should stop most folks in their tracks when they’re thinking about it. It’s a big deal to hand off a bunch of peoples’ personal information, and should never ever be done lightly.
MOSTLY, most folks actually have no idea whatsoever what’s actually involved in running a game, and lots of the people that volunteer to take over a game have no capacity to actually do what they’re volunteering to do.
The first time they realize that what the job entails is like at least 50% (number out of my ass) dealing with people’s interpersonal issues, and NOT storytelling/coding/admin work, that’s it. You get to this realization BEFORE the game opens if you’re the one running it at the start and your WELL PICKED STAFF TEAM can’t stop effing bickering over the GRID NAMING CONVENTION (or some other similarly petty, petty fucking topic).
It is not a pleasant bomb to have dropped upon you, and it’s far more of a risk when the person being handed the game did not go through the development process.
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RE: Why is Pack closing?
I took over somebody’s game once when the gamerunner wanted out, having not even played there previously. It went awfully. I didn’t have the emotional investment required to generate the energy to do it. I think the circumstances when handoffs work are…minimal, for many many reasons.
Def do not recommend in any circumstance beyond passing from game lead to game staffer who has already been running the game or at least is a- invested, and b- reasonably prepared for what’s involved.
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RE: Why is Pack closing?
Nope, I wouldn’t recommend that. Even if the initial host of the archive is trustworthy, you have no guarantees that the person who inherits it will be, and splits of that sort of service happen a LOT in our community. There’s way too much PII involved for my comfort levels, and a wiped DB is useless for archival purposes.
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RE: Why is Pack closing?
Seconding this. Honestly, in no circumstances would I recommend Cobalt share anything. Given who it is that wants it, no.
You have no responsibility to facilitate her abusing people.
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RE: Why is Pack closing?
Disgusting.
Her behavior disgusts me.
Please remember the part she had in the split between MSB and BMD.