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Session Zero & M*s
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@mietze said in Session Zero & M*s:
And on that day all but 1 of the staff/player official STs went to one of the local gamer cafes and rented a banquet room/set up shot, and coordinated the opening plot. It was pretty cool to see! (I was not on staff, but did play a leadership PC and lived local–anyone local was welcome to attend, and quite a few folks flew in from out of town as well).
I remember this, though I wasn’t able to come, but the logistics of it was really impressive and fun. I went through a lot of BSG games and the Warday events were always pretty impressive organizational exercises, but the RL piece of that was very cool.
I don’t think an ongoing ‘Session Zero’ as players come in constantly is really possible, anymore than it’s really possible to make a video game-like tutorial that recreates the experience of learning how to play without hand-holding by another player or staffer. But I’m interested in alternative ways to communicate somewhat intangible things like tone and game culture and how best to pursue RP and plot involvement than theme and policy files feel like they communicate. Setting aside the problem of players who straight-up don’t read, I’ve always felt like there’s a push-and-pull with new players to get them into the game that actually exists versus the game they seem to have set in mind in their own head, and it can lead to aggravation for all parties that’s maybe not necessary.
I want something else to get me through this
Semi-charmed kinda life, baby, baby
I want something else, I'm not listening when you say good-byeShe/Her or They/Them
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@Third-Eye said in Session Zero & M*s:
But I’m interested in alternative ways to communicate somewhat intangible things like tone and game culture and how best to pursue RP and plot involvement than theme and policy files feel like they communicate. Setting aside the problem of players who straight-up don’t read, I’ve always felt like there’s a push-and-pull with new players to get them into the game that actually exists versus the game they seem to have set in mind in their own head, and it can lead to aggravation for all parties that’s maybe not necessary.
Me tooo.
I don’t have any useful thoughts right now, I’m just quoting for attention. I think, like @Roadspike said, a M*s Session Zero is more about theme and policy files but…
The tension with how much there is to read, to catch up on, to get into the game, is real.
How to effectively communicate this stuff is a puzzle I have not yet solved.
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I’m a big fan of requiring a thesis statement component in apps. I think SL did something like this? Maybe? But essentially the game has a thesis statement about what the game is - “This is a story about people working together to help turtles take over the world.” - and then in their app, everyone writes a statement about how their character contributes to that game thesis. “My character is a farmer who grows strawberries, which they will provide to the turtles.” Right up front everyone has to be in the same book if not on the exact same page. Obviously this doesn’t solve all problems but I find it really smart.
as previously stated, good day.
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@farfalla said in Session Zero & M*s:
I’m a big fan of requiring a thesis statement component in apps. I think SL did something like this? Maybe? But essentially the game has a thesis statement about what the game is - “This is a story about people working together to help turtles take over the world.” - and then in their app, everyone writes a statement about how their character contributes to that game thesis. “My character is a farmer who grows strawberries, which they will provide to the turtles.” Right up front everyone has to be in the same book if not on the exact same page. Obviously this doesn’t solve all problems but I find it really smart.
I like this and I’m stealing it. @Tat, did you guys do that on SL?
she/they
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@Third-Eye said in Session Zero & M*s:
@mietze said in Session Zero & M*s:
And on that day all but 1 of the staff/player official STs went to one of the local gamer cafes and rented a banquet room/set up shot, and coordinated the opening plot. It was pretty cool to see! (I was not on staff, but did play a leadership PC and lived local–anyone local was welcome to attend, and quite a few folks flew in from out of town as well).
I remember this, though I wasn’t able to come, but the logistics of it was really impressive and fun. I went through a lot of BSG games and the Warday events were always pretty impressive organizational exercises, but the RL piece of that was very cool.
I don’t think an ongoing ‘Session Zero’ as players come in constantly is really possible, anymore than it’s really possible to make a video game-like tutorial that recreates the experience of learning how to play without hand-holding by another player or staffer.
Interestingly, the above is something that MUDs do all the time, often with a separate small grid for players to acclimate in, and complete with NPC objects that respond to text prompts, etc. While, obviously, MUDs and MUSHes have different aims, and a “quest tutorial” is easier in a MUD environment than a more RP focused MUSH, I think MUSHes often don’t take advantage of the coding possibilities available to them.
If you have a setting/theme with some strong elements that you really do want to make sure players are exposed to, coding a ‘tutorial room’ where that happens (maybe as a fake classroom, or a court meeting, or an intro to the city/faction that mostly plays out in ‘cutscene’ fashion, but gives the PC a few chances to use a social skill, a special ability, and a combat skill just so they know how to work that code before hitting the grid) that players can do on their own might honestly help.
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@Pyrephox omg this is such a good idea. Marry some code tutorial to some theme elements and hope for a good % of it to stick with some people, at least.
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@Pyrephox said in Session Zero & M*s:
@Third-Eye said in Session Zero & M*s:
@mietze said in Session Zero & M*s:
And on that day all but 1 of the staff/player official STs went to one of the local gamer cafes and rented a banquet room/set up shot, and coordinated the opening plot. It was pretty cool to see! (I was not on staff, but did play a leadership PC and lived local–anyone local was welcome to attend, and quite a few folks flew in from out of town as well).
I remember this, though I wasn’t able to come, but the logistics of it was really impressive and fun. I went through a lot of BSG games and the Warday events were always pretty impressive organizational exercises, but the RL piece of that was very cool.
I don’t think an ongoing ‘Session Zero’ as players come in constantly is really possible, anymore than it’s really possible to make a video game-like tutorial that recreates the experience of learning how to play without hand-holding by another player or staffer.
Interestingly, the above is something that MUDs do all the time, often with a separate small grid for players to acclimate in, and complete with NPC objects that respond to text prompts, etc. While, obviously, MUDs and MUSHes have different aims, and a “quest tutorial” is easier in a MUD environment than a more RP focused MUSH, I think MUSHes often don’t take advantage of the coding possibilities available to them.
Yeah, my experience with MUDs was a billion years ago and they weren’t my thing, but I did learn to play real fast through tutorial quests. The struggle with MUSHes is how to take the ST or even helpful player out of that experience and make it purely automated in a way that actually approximates RP, but it’s a thing that feels worth thinking about.
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@hellfrog said in Session Zero & M*s:
@Pyrephox omg this is such a good idea. Marry some code tutorial to some theme elements and hope for a good % of it to stick with some people, at least.
I’ve thought about it a lot, because I do like MUDs for their coded elements, and the ability to log on and Do Stuff at almost any hour. A well-made coded tutorial can do a lot to introduce someone to a theme and world, and it can happen without adding staff burden, OR without being easily ignorable like mails or bboards.
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Make a tutorial room that weeds out unwanted elements by putting them in situations that expose underlying biases where their responses lead directly to app rejection.
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@Tez We had a thesis statement (well, a thesis paragraph), but nothing in the app. It’s a good idea though!
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I wonder if putting barriers in pre approval would actually work now, where it really didn’t in the era where it was common.
I remember having to write 8 page document length bgs and take quizzes about source material/news files and all that shit in the 90s/aughts in more than a few places and honestly there are less dumbasses that I encounter on lax places now and in the last 5 years while the games with the high barrier had a crapload of awful rpers and players.
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@mietze When I first got into WoD games you couldn’t hit a grid without a multi-page background/application that showed you understood every little detail of your splat and how they interacted and oh, you have this merit? Pls explain at length.
I kept that policy when I ran my first WoD game because it was what I knew, but it didn’t take me long to realize that it wasn’t working from an admin perspective. I think what I found was that when people put so much work into an app they were less likely to bounce from the game when it became evident it wasn’t a good fit for them, if that makes sense? They were committed! They put in the work! When I loosened up application standards, I felt like we had a lot fewer problems between players even though there were more players.
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I remember Aether had a quiz to see if you’d read theme information and it was pretty non-hoop-jumping. Just like one question that I assume was randomized.
I want something else to get me through this
Semi-charmed kinda life, baby, baby
I want something else, I'm not listening when you say good-byeShe/Her or They/Them
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@Third-Eye said in Session Zero & M*s:
I remember Aether had a quiz to see if you’d read theme information and it was pretty non-hoop-jumping. Just like one question that I assume was randomized.
I had an ENORMOUS actual TEST (with a key and scoring on my side) for the Vampire Sphere on Ashes to Ashes. To play a Class 4 character required a certain score, and to play a Class 5 character you had to hit extra credit points.
It talked about things like the origins of the Salubri and had notes for bonus points if you mentioned the Tremere thing.
I used to be full of shame for this, but now I am full of amusement. Gosh, I was young.
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@mietze said in Session Zero & M*s:
I wonder if putting barriers in pre approval would actually work now, where it really didn’t in the era where it was common.
Someone would have to actually (want to) read all that.
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I failed my damn test on Ansible TWICE.
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@BurnNotice yes. I also found that a significant number of people who wrote beautiful bgs with lots of detail showing they knew a lot of the mechanics and such realky struggled to actually RP with people rather than past them or could struggle to get along with others who were newer to the Canon or just had another valid but different perspective on things.
So they certainly did care very much about their pc and views but it didn’t always translate to being able to find meaningful RP where they needed to be able to build story with and around others or they had a low threshold for irritation bc they had sunk so much time in before starting that they maybe thought they’d get an equal investment by staff/other players in them–and that was not the case in the majority of places unless they knew someone.
Not to say that cannot happen with low barrier entry too.
But I personally think an RP “test” would be more useful than lots of paperwork when it comes to finding out if someone is a good fit for a game/faction as well as better theme enforcement post approval. Both of those esp the former are a lot of work and time investment on staff’s end though that I’m not sure is feasible esp on a game where a large population is desired/supported!
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We ended up imposing a character limit on BGs on Spirit Lake because the super long ones actually caused more approval issues than they ever solved for anyone. Not just ‘I do not want to read this person’s novel’ issues (though, umm, kind of that) but the more someone wrote the more personal history contradictions and non-thematic things they inevitably introduced. Sometimes that presented opportunities for upfront theme correction that saved time later, but usually not, because people just RP differently than they BG write.
BGs have merit for me in terms of giving me upfront time to figure out a character and where they fit in the universe but they’ve never felt like they had any relationship to RP quality.
Kinda feeling the idea of rooms with theme information you had to interact with, though ideally it’d be something that pushes you to the Info channel or easily-organized files for questions if you didn’t know rather than a pass-fail.
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@BurnNotice said in Session Zero & M*s:
@mietze When I first got into WoD games you couldn’t hit a grid without a multi-page background/application that showed you understood every little detail of your splat and how they interacted and oh, you have this merit? Pls explain at length.
I kept that policy when I ran my first WoD game because it was what I knew, but it didn’t take me long to realize that it wasn’t working from an admin perspective. I think what I found was that when people put so much work into an app they were less likely to bounce from the game when it became evident it wasn’t a good fit for them, if that makes sense? They were committed! They put in the work! When I loosened up application standards, I felt like we had a lot fewer problems between players even though there were more players.
There’s definitely a balance you have to strike. Too much work is going to self-select for people who are, maybe, uh, TOO invested in details. These often (not always, but often) aren’t great players - they may know a lot but sometimes they aren’t the most flexible. And you want players who can flex.
Too little, though, and people kinda do whatever. Which isn’t the worst thing in the world, but can be very frustrating for players who want to play within the theme/setting as written.
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I’ve approached the Silent Heaven chargen / tutorial as if it’s a Session Zero experience.
- First, you learn and employ the absolute basics of how to play a MU*.
- Then, you get a taste of the lore and what kind of action your character will be involved in.
- Then there’s an IC questionnaire that generates a character sheet for you.
- After that, you get a policy overview, and an opportunity to read them in depth now or once you’ve finished the intro. There’s also a link to the Discord for OOC chat.
- Then you’re given a chance to desc your character as much or as little as you wish before entering the game proper.
- And lastly, you’re given a short writing prompt to explain what your character is doing here. There’s no keeping you waiting for approval; we’ll review it and if there’s anything that doesn’t work, we’ll reach out afterward.
All of this is done through an opening sequence that’s the equivalent of an intro vignette that you get to play through. But that’s not all. Dumping the player into the game like that and telling them to go play just isn’t enough. So there’s more.
- If you’ve had enough out of your Session Zero, there’s an opportunity to go to your character’s private room and call it a day.
- Inside the private room is a checklist of things you can do when you return for your Session One. This includes customizing your character more, filling out your consent checklist, reading policies, practicing commands, rerolling if you don’t like your character sheet, or going out into the town to RP.
- Additionally, there’s an NPC near your character’s private room who’s automated to help you practice using RP commands before you RP with other characters.
I wish more games would do something like this, but I know from coding it firsthand that it’s more work than I think anyone should reasonably be expected to do.
