Session Zero & M*s

[hellfrog]

I believe that is called an ‘alpha’ and it leads to a ‘beta’ that never ends and is thus just the game

[Tat]

@hellfrog

[mietze]

The closest I’ve seen to that was a “story start” date that was an all day event (broken up into some separate and some concurrent scenes over the course of about 12 hours ran by the staffers who did coordinated scenes to launch the beginning of the story/mush proper.

Prior to that, people could RP, but with the understanding that the world would drastically alter on War Day. Staff concentrated on getting people approved, ect.

And on that day all but 1 of the staff/player official STs went to one of the local gamer cafes and rented a banquet room/set up shot, and coordinated the opening plot. It was pretty cool to see! (I was not on staff, but did play a leadership PC and lived local–anyone local was welcome to attend, and quite a few folks flew in from out of town as well).

It was just a really neat community feel (and most of the people on the game seemed to really enjoy it too).

I know with the writeup I have for the FS game I’ll probably never get off the ground, I had planned on a series of kick-off scenes to get people immersed in the story AND also to connect them with each other. (also had planned for at least 1 or 2 smaller group scenes to help gel some of those as well). Mostly because it was fun to see what happened with that launch event.

But that was a long time of preplanning, and a lot of logistics, and it was also pre-covid. There is something really neat about starting the behind the screen team off with a neat thing like that though.

[farfalla]

What would this be as opposed to just … the policies and theme pages? I would say the majority of these aren’t things that are going to be up for negotiation for the game runner. No one wants to ask the community how they think xp should be earned or what gender roles should be. So I’m a lot more interested in the second question - what, if anything, should be or could be up for discussion between game runners and players, prior to the start of a game? Idk that I can think of anything but I’ve also never run a game.

[Roadspike]

I think that there are some very interesting expectation-setting things that can be done as a “Session Zero,” but I agree with @farfalla that this is more like Policy and Theme pages on the website. I do think that there are some additional things that can be put on those pages to make them more like a Session Zero.

For instance, you could describe your expectations for not just harassment and alts and metagaming, but also for RL political influences (particularly important for a modern/RL-world game), things that can be done ICly but won’t be allowed OOCly, and a social contract. I stole the idea of the social contract wholecloth, but I like it – it sets expectations on what will be “just normal stuff” ICly, what will be allowed OOCly but argued over ICly, what will be allowed by NPCs OOCly but not by PCs, and what will never be allowed by anyone. That goes a long way in setting up comfort zones and letting people know what they’re getting into.

Your overview page can have some setting info, and links to good starting theme files, but it can also have a description of the main themes of the game, what PCs can generally be expected to do, and what Staff will contribute.

All of these things can help set expectations so that players and staff are all on the same page as far as how the game will be played is concerned – sort of like an on-going Session Zero (although a bit one-sided).

[Taika]

There’s some old Cobalt code floating around called +prefs that can be used to flag for what kinds of rp you enjoy.

[Third Eye]

@mietze said in Session Zero & M*s:

And on that day all but 1 of the staff/player official STs went to one of the local gamer cafes and rented a banquet room/set up shot, and coordinated the opening plot. It was pretty cool to see! (I was not on staff, but did play a leadership PC and lived local–anyone local was welcome to attend, and quite a few folks flew in from out of town as well).

I remember this, though I wasn’t able to come, but the logistics of it was really impressive and fun. I went through a lot of BSG games and the Warday events were always pretty impressive organizational exercises, but the RL piece of that was very cool.

I don’t think an ongoing ‘Session Zero’ as players come in constantly is really possible, anymore than it’s really possible to make a video game-like tutorial that recreates the experience of learning how to play without hand-holding by another player or staffer. But I’m interested in alternative ways to communicate somewhat intangible things like tone and game culture and how best to pursue RP and plot involvement than theme and policy files feel like they communicate. Setting aside the problem of players who straight-up don’t read, I’ve always felt like there’s a push-and-pull with new players to get them into the game that actually exists versus the game they seem to have set in mind in their own head, and it can lead to aggravation for all parties that’s maybe not necessary.

[Tat]

@Third-Eye said in Session Zero & M*s:

But I’m interested in alternative ways to communicate somewhat intangible things like tone and game culture and how best to pursue RP and plot involvement than theme and policy files feel like they communicate. Setting aside the problem of players who straight-up don’t read, I’ve always felt like there’s a push-and-pull with new players to get them into the game that actually exists versus the game they seem to have set in mind in their own head, and it can lead to aggravation for all parties that’s maybe not necessary.

Me tooo.

I don’t have any useful thoughts right now, I’m just quoting for attention. I think, like @Roadspike said, a M*s Session Zero is more about theme and policy files but…

The tension with how much there is to read, to catch up on, to get into the game, is real.

How to effectively communicate this stuff is a puzzle I have not yet solved.

[farfalla]

I’m a big fan of requiring a thesis statement component in apps. I think SL did something like this? Maybe? But essentially the game has a thesis statement about what the game is - “This is a story about people working together to help turtles take over the world.” - and then in their app, everyone writes a statement about how their character contributes to that game thesis. “My character is a farmer who grows strawberries, which they will provide to the turtles.” Right up front everyone has to be in the same book if not on the exact same page. Obviously this doesn’t solve all problems but I find it really smart.

[Tez]

@farfalla said in Session Zero & M*s:

I’m a big fan of requiring a thesis statement component in apps. I think SL did something like this? Maybe? But essentially the game has a thesis statement about what the game is - “This is a story about people working together to help turtles take over the world.” - and then in their app, everyone writes a statement about how their character contributes to that game thesis. “My character is a farmer who grows strawberries, which they will provide to the turtles.” Right up front everyone has to be in the same book if not on the exact same page. Obviously this doesn’t solve all problems but I find it really smart.

I like this and I’m stealing it. @Tat, did you guys do that on SL?

[Pyrephox]

@Third-Eye said in Session Zero & M*s:

@mietze said in Session Zero & M*s:

And on that day all but 1 of the staff/player official STs went to one of the local gamer cafes and rented a banquet room/set up shot, and coordinated the opening plot. It was pretty cool to see! (I was not on staff, but did play a leadership PC and lived local–anyone local was welcome to attend, and quite a few folks flew in from out of town as well).

I remember this, though I wasn’t able to come, but the logistics of it was really impressive and fun. I went through a lot of BSG games and the Warday events were always pretty impressive organizational exercises, but the RL piece of that was very cool.

I don’t think an ongoing ‘Session Zero’ as players come in constantly is really possible, anymore than it’s really possible to make a video game-like tutorial that recreates the experience of learning how to play without hand-holding by another player or staffer.

Interestingly, the above is something that MUDs do all the time, often with a separate small grid for players to acclimate in, and complete with NPC objects that respond to text prompts, etc. While, obviously, MUDs and MUSHes have different aims, and a “quest tutorial” is easier in a MUD environment than a more RP focused MUSH, I think MUSHes often don’t take advantage of the coding possibilities available to them.

If you have a setting/theme with some strong elements that you really do want to make sure players are exposed to, coding a ‘tutorial room’ where that happens (maybe as a fake classroom, or a court meeting, or an intro to the city/faction that mostly plays out in ‘cutscene’ fashion, but gives the PC a few chances to use a social skill, a special ability, and a combat skill just so they know how to work that code before hitting the grid) that players can do on their own might honestly help.

[hellfrog]

@Pyrephox omg this is such a good idea. Marry some code tutorial to some theme elements and hope for a good % of it to stick with some people, at least.

[Third Eye]

@Pyrephox said in Session Zero & M*s:

@Third-Eye said in Session Zero & M*s:

@mietze said in Session Zero & M*s:

And on that day all but 1 of the staff/player official STs went to one of the local gamer cafes and rented a banquet room/set up shot, and coordinated the opening plot. It was pretty cool to see! (I was not on staff, but did play a leadership PC and lived local–anyone local was welcome to attend, and quite a few folks flew in from out of town as well).

I remember this, though I wasn’t able to come, but the logistics of it was really impressive and fun. I went through a lot of BSG games and the Warday events were always pretty impressive organizational exercises, but the RL piece of that was very cool.

I don’t think an ongoing ‘Session Zero’ as players come in constantly is really possible, anymore than it’s really possible to make a video game-like tutorial that recreates the experience of learning how to play without hand-holding by another player or staffer.

Interestingly, the above is something that MUDs do all the time, often with a separate small grid for players to acclimate in, and complete with NPC objects that respond to text prompts, etc. While, obviously, MUDs and MUSHes have different aims, and a “quest tutorial” is easier in a MUD environment than a more RP focused MUSH, I think MUSHes often don’t take advantage of the coding possibilities available to them.

Yeah, my experience with MUDs was a billion years ago and they weren’t my thing, but I did learn to play real fast through tutorial quests. The struggle with MUSHes is how to take the ST or even helpful player out of that experience and make it purely automated in a way that actually approximates RP, but it’s a thing that feels worth thinking about.

[Pyrephox]

@hellfrog said in Session Zero & M*s:

@Pyrephox omg this is such a good idea. Marry some code tutorial to some theme elements and hope for a good % of it to stick with some people, at least.

I’ve thought about it a lot, because I do like MUDs for their coded elements, and the ability to log on and Do Stuff at almost any hour. A well-made coded tutorial can do a lot to introduce someone to a theme and world, and it can happen without adding staff burden, OR without being easily ignorable like mails or bboards.

[Tez]

Make a tutorial room that weeds out unwanted elements by putting them in situations that expose underlying biases where their responses lead directly to app rejection.

[Tat]

@Tez We had a thesis statement (well, a thesis paragraph), but nothing in the app. It’s a good idea though!

[mietze]

I wonder if putting barriers in pre approval would actually work now, where it really didn’t in the era where it was common.

I remember having to write 8 page document length bgs and take quizzes about source material/news files and all that shit in the 90s/aughts in more than a few places and honestly there are less dumbasses that I encounter on lax places now and in the last 5 years while the games with the high barrier had a crapload of awful rpers and players.

[BurnNotice]

@mietze When I first got into WoD games you couldn’t hit a grid without a multi-page background/application that showed you understood every little detail of your splat and how they interacted and oh, you have this merit? Pls explain at length.

I kept that policy when I ran my first WoD game because it was what I knew, but it didn’t take me long to realize that it wasn’t working from an admin perspective. I think what I found was that when people put so much work into an app they were less likely to bounce from the game when it became evident it wasn’t a good fit for them, if that makes sense? They were committed! They put in the work! When I loosened up application standards, I felt like we had a lot fewer problems between players even though there were more players.

[Third Eye]

I remember Aether had a quiz to see if you’d read theme information and it was pretty non-hoop-jumping. Just like one question that I assume was randomized.

[IoleRae]

@Third-Eye said in Session Zero & M*s:

I remember Aether had a quiz to see if you’d read theme information and it was pretty non-hoop-jumping. Just like one question that I assume was randomized.

I had an ENORMOUS actual TEST (with a key and scoring on my side) for the Vampire Sphere on Ashes to Ashes. To play a Class 4 character required a certain score, and to play a Class 5 character you had to hit extra credit points.

It talked about things like the origins of the Salubri and had notes for bonus points if you mentioned the Tremere thing.

I used to be full of shame for this, but now I am full of amusement. Gosh, I was young.