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@Testament I think that there’s still work going on behind the scenes to try and balance weapons and armor for FS3 combat. I could be way off base of course, but that’s the impression I’ve gotten. I can’t fault them for that, it IS Alpha so now is the time to tweak and tweak and tweak and I’m not sure a BIG PC combat in a BIG GM scene is the best time to test and tweak the system.
But I get where you’re coming from and they do want feedback so for sure send in that request. -
I think any worthwhile GM would concede they don’t know what they are doing half the time. It’s a lot like Whose Line Is It, Anyway?, at least in my opinion – the rules are made up and the points don’t matter.
There were a few things that could have been done better/differently. Staff seems to be acutely aware of as much. Nothing fundamentally wrong with trying a different system during a larger scene. Every mistake is an opportunity to learn something.
Chaos and disorganization are inevitable when player counts exceed 10. To staff’s credit, they wrapped up a large event in about 3 hours and no one walked away terribly upset. There was good communication and most of the playerbase seemed engaged.
Next steps are just about refinement. They called for constructive feedback, so it’s a good idea to submit a job if you have any ideas or observations.
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No large event is ever going to be perfect, but this is especially true when it’s the game’s frist event and it’s a monster of an event.
It’s extremely easy to look back at a scene and think about all the ways you could’ve done it better if you had been the one running it. This is especially true when you have no concept of what’s going on behind the scenes and why certain decisions are made, and when you didn’t even participate in the scene to begin with.
I’ve never been in a large-scale battle with 30+ people that’s worked out perfectly. I don’t honestly believe coded combat would’ve made things better - in fact, it would have negated some of the things staff was trying to do (get people to work together) because there’s no way to really do that with the FS3 combat code. It would have just been a bunch of people individually throwing coded weapons at different NPCs, with staff playing the role of “did we make these NPCs too strong/too weak”, and honestly I have found that after 2 or 3 rounds people get tired of coded combat and just want to get it over with.
I think people often get caught up too much in the dice rather than the actual roleplay, and they feel like they didn’t make an impact unless the system tells them that they did, but that’s not really a Concordia problem.
Staff did a great job for their first big event. Would there have been things I would’ve done differently? Absolutely. Were there moments where I was irritated, confused as to what was going on, or felt the scene was too chaotic for my tastes? Yep. But also hey, I’m a MUSH person, I can find things to complain about and criticize all day long if I really wanted to, even in the most well-thought out and well-planned scenes. Do I think that even if they had made smaller scenes or used coded combat or any other various combination of things that people would’ve still found something to complain about? 100%, see previous sentence about MUSH people.
At the end of the day, this event successfully did what I think it was set up to do: give people something to RP about.
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There seems to be this misconception that I think that staff did a bad job at running the scene. In no way do I think that at all, so that is not the takeaway that I want to give. It obviously was a success by the amount of people that said so.
Everything that I say is my own perception of what I personally experienced. So perhaps it’s a me problem that I found myself confused and frustrated that at times I didn’t really understand what was going on or what to do and the rules that came along with the scene itself. It felt like a lot to keep in mind. I’m sure there a plenty of reasons that justify those decisions. Or at the very least, give them context.
Does that mean the scene was bad? No, because I figure what’s considered good or bad is a matter of subjective taste. And again, just because I left feeling frustrated does not mean that I didn’t enjoy myself for what it was. Is it my preference for combat to handled via FS3? Sure, I’m a big fan of the system and I believe that streamlines combat. That’s obviously a preference of mine. I know people that absolutely loathe FS3. Probably just as much as I think manually rolling and math creates more difficulty on both the GM and players.
Just because that’s the view I took away from it, doesn’t mean that I don’t want to help and try to improve it. I also want to point out that criticism isn’t necessarily meant as negative. And because I might believe that I think it could’ve been handled better still does not mean it was bad. Nor does it mean that I have any wish to take away credit from the event runners from where it’s due. Certainly doesn’t stop me from playing and enjoying the game, despite the fact that I think that things can be improved. Because I have to believe that a lot of people there want and desire it to be successful.
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@bear_necessities said in Concordia Thread:
At the end of the day, this event successfully did what I think it was set up to do: give people something to RP about.
This is absolutely right in terms of what a big event on an open game needs to accomplish. Though I do feel like, the game is explicitly in alpha and staffers are soliciting feedback. This is the time to be critical about what’s working and what’s not before things get so far along that they feel locked in/hard to change. And staff’s engaged with BMD in terms of doing it’s alpha feedback, so.
I kinda assume any game that says it’s in alpha has a very good chance of entirely throwing out existing systems and characters and is doing a bunch of testing of stuff that might not work. This is a way bigger ‘alpha’ than I’d ever involve myself with, though I’m sure it’s exciting to play.
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Roleplayers are the worst thing about roleplay. This hobby sucks, we’re all debilitatingly mentally ill for doing it.
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@Third-Eye I generally don’t like to give feedback or any kind of criticism because I have zero desire for it to be taken the wrong way. Which largely could be placed on me based on how I word it.
Because sometimes it feels like when you do have feedback or criticism in how a game is run or a how system functions or how a scene or event was organized/ran it can turn into a fight or debate real quick.
In regards to offering this kind of thing on mushes, to quote a friend of mine, ‘When you post “This could have been better” it either turns into “fuck you how dare you” or “yeah fuck this game it stabs the elderly with rusty pirate ship anchors”’
Or both.
I don't know what I'm doing. Poke at Seven Nations sevennations.aresmush.com port 2021
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@Anhedonia OR…we’re all debilitatingly mentally ill so we do this.
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@bear_necessities said in Concordia Thread:
in fact, it would have negated some of the things staff was trying to do (get people to work together) because there’s no way to really do that with the FS3 combat code. It would have just been a bunch of people individually throwing coded weapons at different NPCs
I agree with your “can’t please everyone” points in general, but this comment is just not accurate. The FS3 combat code offers various commands for characters to aid each other, and – more importantly – there’s a pause in-between each round where people can collaborate while posing. I’ve seen countless instances of players bouncing off each other and doing clever, creative, collaborative things in scenes with coded combat support.
Now it’s true that many players just do their own thing, but you’ll also find that in big NON-coded combat scenes. It’s hard to keep track of everything going on in a big crowd, and many players are reluctant to bog things down.
Setting that aside, the coded combat is nothing more than a tool. It’s not right for every game or every scene, just like a hammer isn’t the right tool for every repair.
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@Anhedonia lol shut up
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@tsar come play concordia nerd or 1v1 me on rust interventions only ur choice
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@Anhedonia you’re not my real dad
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This is the new Arx-like, right?
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@Testament said in Concordia Thread:
In regards to offering this kind of thing on mushes, to quote a friend of mine, ‘When you post “This could have been better” it either turns into “fuck you how dare you” or “yeah fuck this game it stabs the elderly with rusty pirate ship anchors”’
Or both.
To your friend’s point, a lot of MUSHers have the emotional intelligence of a middle schooler, so they’re certainly not wrong.
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@Faraday I stand corrected, I am not the most skilled in the combat code admittedly. I know we could’ve individually used the distract command for the archers but idk how we could have represented tying up their legs with ropes to knock them down? I should’ve said from my personal experience I’ve not really seen coordinated attacks like that and I didn’t mean to misrepresent the code!
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@Polk said in Concordia Thread:
This is the new Arx-like, right?
Potentially. They do have a roadmap for what some of their plans are, but I wouldn’t be ready to call anything the “new Arx-like” until it has more than 2 weeks under its belt, lol.
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@bear_necessities said in Concordia Thread:
@Faraday I stand corrected, I am not the most skilled in the combat code admittedly. I know we could’ve individually used the distract command for the archers but idk how we could have represented tying up their legs with ropes to knock them down?
combat/subdue and some GM negotiation
ETA: This is not a game I’m playing and I don’t particularly care whether they make use of FS3 combat or not, there are plenty of reasons not to including simply GM comfort level, but it does have built in features for healing and non-lethally capturing an opponent.
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@bear_necessities said in Concordia Thread:
idk how we could have represented tying up their legs with ropes to knock them down?
No worries. Like @Third-Eye said, that specific thing could probably be modeled with the ‘subdue’ action, depending on the situation. There’s also distract, rally, suppress, treat, and a few other ‘teamwork’ type things.
But certainly not all actions have a code-y equivalent. That’s why there’s a combat organizer/GM to sort those things out. They might adjust NPC actions, apply manual modifiers, or even inflict custom damage. Some GMs make creative use of stances and actions - e.g., a ‘reckless stance’ + ‘pass action’ makes them easier to hit for a turn.
Bottom line though - coded combat is meant to help with the heavy lifting, to automate what can sensibly be automated, but it’s not meant to take the place of RP. Heck, I don’t even use it myself for every fight scene. It just keeps me from going insane spending 8 hours in a 15-on-15 battle
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@Anhedonia said in Concordia Thread:
Roleplayers are the worst thing about roleplay. This hobby sucks, we’re all debilitatingly mentally ill for doing it.
Excuse you, but some of us were already debilitatingly mentally ill to start with.
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@Aria said in Concordia Thread:
Excuse you, but some of us were already debilitatingly mentally ill to start with.
On Wednesdays we wear grippy socks.
