hobos Temporary Ban Discussion Thread

[Pavel]

@Jennkryst said in Admin Actions Discussion Thread:

Said to discuss this here, so adding this on (but it can be it’s own thread if we prefer) - I upvoted because I understand the sentiment, but I feel like this also defeats the whole purpose of them opening up the hog-pit so people who were banned can access it. So we can look (not search), but then cannot actually show people what is there.

To acknowledge your point, MSB is a rich resource for the history of some reasons behind dislike and distaste of certain persons and places - I absolutely agree.

However, and to continue on from @GF’s point, it’s a sore spot right now. For many of us. Repeatedly screenshotting or linking things from there to here, and encouraging people to go there (to either prove the screenshot’s true, or find their own receipts, or whatever else) is like going through your ex’s Facebook and getting sad about their new partner.

ETA: This isn’t an admin dogpile, we were all literally typing at the same time.

[Tez]

[Snackness]

@Tez You stole my post

[Pavel]

I’m starting to think one admin account is a good idea, now that we’ve done that kind of clusterduck posting…

[Pyrephox]

@Pavel Then we’d probably be bumping each other off as we all tried to use it at the same time. Keystone Cops style.

[Tez]

@Pavel It would just be three posts in a row from one account.

[tsar]

I see my work here is done.

[sao]

@Tez I know where you got that gif.

[Testament]

@Pyrephox said in Admin Actions Discussion Thread:

@Jennkryst We have no desire to stop you from reaching out to people by different means if you feel it’s necessary. We’re just not really interested in having screenshots and links to the other forum here, and definitely not interested in providing a staging ground for actions over there. Just about anyone who is here knows where the other forum is, and knows how to access information from it (or has a friend who can if they were banned), so it’s not really necessary to have those things on public display here.

You can even continue to talk about it! We just aren’t interested in hosting a thread full of MSB screenshots or links to MSB.

In that regard, I apologize for my own turn at posting a screenshot from MSB, even if it was a screenshot of something I said, which feels mildly Inception-like. I was trying point something out to another person.

[Pavel]

@Testament said in Admin Actions Discussion Thread:

@Pyrephox said in Admin Actions Discussion Thread:

@Jennkryst We have no desire to stop you from reaching out to people by different means if you feel it’s necessary. We’re just not really interested in having screenshots and links to the other forum here, and definitely not interested in providing a staging ground for actions over there. Just about anyone who is here knows where the other forum is, and knows how to access information from it (or has a friend who can if they were banned), so it’s not really necessary to have those things on public display here.

You can even continue to talk about it! We just aren’t interested in hosting a thread full of MSB screenshots or links to MSB.

In that regard, I apologize for my own turn at posting a screenshot from MSB, even if it was a screenshot of something I said, which feels mildly Inception-like. I was trying point something out to another person.

Hey, what’s done is done. We can move forward from it without a problem.

[KDraygo]

@Pyrephox said in Admin Actions Discussion Thread:

@Pavel Then we’d probably be bumping each other off as we all tried to use it at the same time. Keystone Cops style.

That issue is probably easily avoidable. I assume that issues and any potential actions, announcements, or reprimands that are to be posted would be discussed by the admins behind closed doors first. The only added step would be to draft the post of said action, announcement, or reprimand in that admin level discussion thread, then one staff is assigned to publish the official post that staff wanted the community or individual to see on the staff bit.

[Pavel]

@KDraygo Well, yes. But we were joking.

[glitch]

So the decision is fine and I don’t care to pick at MSB or get involved with any of it, but this is definitely more active moderation. The continuation of any of those conversations wouldn’t have been out of line from the posted rules and a more hands off approach.

If you want to adjust the tone of bmd, by all means. I realize the forum is still young and you’re finding your admin/mod footing, but if you’re making a departure from hands off with the exception of the four bullet points in your initial Guidelines, I think that needs to be made clear.

[Tez]

@glitch Fair point and thank you for saying so. You’re right: we’re still figuring this all out. We’ll need to think about that.

[IoleRae]

I do not even in the SLIGHTEST think that it’s a bad idea to have more active moderation, and I think if the team is UP for it, it can only do good things. I do agree that it needs to be made clear (and you guys need to feel comfortable with what it is you’re agreeing to do), but I do NOT think active moderation would be bad even a little bit.

[Pavel]

@glitch Speaking only for myself, the current state of hurt and anguish over the recent history of MSB is a precarious situation requiring a more active hand than we expected when setting out those initial guidelines. I certainly agree that it’s more active than we had intimated, but at the same time I feel that it’s warranted in cases of heightened negative feeling and regard.

I may well be alone in this view, and that’s fine too, but that’s why I supported the decision.

[helvetica]

Active moderation is a big ask with a lot of emotional labor involved and it could lead to… burnout. I think we all just lived through an epic mod burnout and I hope we can account for insulating the people keeping this structure in place, too. I def think clarity in the Guidelines like @glitch said can help with that.

[Pavel]

@helvetica It definitely could lead to burnout. Thankfully we’re not just one entity making all the decisions, and we’re each responsible to each other as well as responsible for the forum. We earnestly mean it when we say we’re a team.

This is a time of flux, and starting out with the more-traditional “hands-off” approach is a sound move. Saying that, however, it probably needs to be further developed as situations and needs arise that demonstrate change is needed.

A totally static policy is a useless policy when adaptation is required.

[tsar]

I know that I’m feeling worried about us hashing and re-hashing our feelings in the banned thread. It’s been a lot. I just realized last night that this has all been going on since before 5/5. That’s nearly a month.

A month of hurt feelings, feeling defensive, feeling injustice, feeling angry on your own behalf or someone else’s.

I’d be happy at this point to see some of these posts put to rest. But I accept other people aren’t there yet. I just don’t want us to fan the flames more than we have to.

[glitch]

@Pavel I didn’t get banned from MSB, but I did have a certain investment in it as well and had my own thoughts about what happened. I don’t mind more moderation if that’s going to be the thing, or honestly even more touch-and-go moderation in instances where there’s consensus among admin as to a particular subject that storms the forums at any given time.

Guidelines are guidelines for a reason. They don’t need to become stale or adhered to religiously for all time. They don’t even need to be super long and intricate. I just think they need to be clear.

@tsar I haven’t really been participating in the threads, so I don’t say this out of a desire to keep it going. I just would like to see this forum do well and so I bring up things that matter to me in that regard.