MU Peeves Thread
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@helvetica said in MU Peeves Thread:
But also… I don’t want to play in some kind of pre-established utopia. I’d rather play fighting for one and building one. Having no adversity and no socially structured limitations on a game sounds boring as fuck.
@Roz said in MU Peeves Thread:
…But I absolutely don’t think it’s wrong for a game to explore or reflect these sorts of prejudices that exist IRL (either in modern days, or historically). Some people who have experienced prejudice or trauma don’t want to touch anything that resembles it in their hobby space, and some of those people actively want to engage with it in their hobby space. It’s just different preferences here.
Agree with you both here. I think what’s most important for me is just that it says on the box what you are getting into. I don’t want to find out a year in that actually I’ve been living under authoritarian jam control.
I quite enjoy playing scrappy underdogs fighting against a terrible status quo. @Yam and other friends have run some great little games that let me tell amazing stories in those kinds of worlds. You wanna talk wish-fulfillment, man. Fulfills my wishes to think we can overthrow corrupt institutions. :')
I get where game runners are coming from when they try to push against the tide. I think there’s a tendency to over-correct and avoid some of the more uncomfortable elements of theme because you always run the risk of getting the players who actually think it’s super cool and fun to run around slinging slurs and call it historical. They are not there to overthrow institutions. There are there to be institutions.
As ever, the problem is players.
It’s easier to just lean hard into a more progressive setting rather than navigate the sticky bits.
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@helvetica said in MU Peeves Thread:
ngl, I am finding the Game Ads tone that some of this convo has taken to be a little off-putting.
Glad it’s not just me.
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I don’t understand what is meant by game ad tone. The conversation isn’t all negative I guess and there is some theory discussion, and game ads as I understand them are more to not have people discussing all the ways they don’t like the game. Though now its dominating a general thread, is that the issue like it needs its own place in R&R?
I really genuinely don’t understand what is meant by this.
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@mietze it might be me going into ideas for L5R
which is fair to call out. I will happily return to the FuckFruit Discussion. -
the problem is absolutely players. what’s easy and fun to spin for 6 people is probably unmanageable for 20, 30, or 100. everyone wants to take down The Man! everyone has different ideas for how to do it and wants the credit
fr fr
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@hellfrog #10playerlimitonallmushes
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@mietze said in MU Peeves Thread:
I don’t understand what is meant by game ad tone. The conversation isn’t all negative I guess and there is some theory discussion, and game ads as I understand them are more to not have people discussing all the ways they don’t like the game. Though now its dominating a general thread, is that the issue like it needs its own place in R&R?
I really genuinely don’t understand what is meant by this.
I second this.
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@mietze What I mean is, the “well on my game, we do x” approach is starting to come off as self-serving.
ETA: like an advertisement for a game
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@helvetica ohhhhhhh ok. I can’t believe I didn’t get that! Duh!
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@mietze You were not alone. I couldn’t parse it either.
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@helvetica all the @Alveraxus account does is shamelessly self promote their game and how they do things Different.
also this is all conjecture and rumor but there’s a suggestion that @mangosplitz and @Alveraxus might be the same person in which case it’s kinda gross that they’d use one account to bash Concordia and another to promote how their game does it better >.>
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I would like the record to reflect that I just threw what I felt was some well-earned shade. I didn’t come for anybody’s neck. That said, people are on these streets making @bear_necessities and I agree on things.
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@helvetica said in MU Peeves Thread:
That said, people are on these streets making @bear_necessities and I agree on things.
The horror, the horror! lol but I honestly can’t remember the last time I disagreed with you on something so maybe the world is righting itself.
Either that or my memory is failing me because I’m 40 now
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Yeah, point taken. Wasn’t my intent, just thought it was an interesting discussion on a topic relevant to my interests, but I see how it could be taken that way looking back at the comments. My apologies.
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@helvetica Always remember that Wu Tang is for the children.
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(sorry for the late reply to this, it just felt like a big question to answer)
I think there is a mix to be found?
Speaking from my experience as a gay man, I played on a lot of RPI MUDs before I found MUSH games, and many of them would say something like “We allow LGBT characters! We have no rule against it!!” but would leave out the context that the IC world was heavily biased against it and that whenever an LGBT character became known, they would be swiftly murdered in short order, as an example.
TW: Transphobic violence
In fact, in one game I played on, killing a player would leave that player’s corpse as an object, which players could leave a pose/status on for anyone who walked through the grid space subsequently to see. It was meant to be used as a bit of immersive worldbuilding. Walking in on the corpse of one of my character’s friends (a trans woman) and seeing exactly how (and how apparently gleefully) my fellow players had chosen to describe mutilating her body was one of the most disturbing experiences I have had on any MU game and put me off the genre completely for a number of years.So, discovering MUSH games which seemed largely to have moved past that was a revelation. I am happy almost every MUSH I have played was happy with me wanting to play a character who represents me, for example. I would not want to play on any game which centred real world themes of racism/homophobia/misogyny and other issues like that, because I ultimately MU as a form of escapism.
If a MU game wanted to incorporate other elements - L&L games for example, almost always deal with issues of classism to some extent, though in a far more high fantasy setting than we might experience day to day. Or a fantasy game where there was a racial prejudice between elves and dwarves, or something. I think for me those are much more deal-able with and tend to be slightly less visceral because there is an added layer of separation.
Obviously as players we all have prejudices and blind spots that we can’t help but bring IC with us, but in terms of my MU games I would generally prefer the common modern prejudices not to be there, even if the world is flawed in other ways.
But then that is also just my subjective feelings on the subject. So someone else might feel differently (and rightly so).
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@Pacha said in MU Peeves Thread:
@Roz
TW: Transphobic violenceIn fact, in one game I played on, killing a player would leave that player’s corpse as an object, which players could leave a pose/status on for anyone who walked through the grid space subsequently to see. It was meant to be used as a bit of immersive worldbuilding. Walking in on the corpse of one of my character’s friends (a trans woman) and seeing exactly how (and how apparently gleefully) my fellow players had chosen to describe mutilating her body was one of the most disturbing experiences I have had on any MU game and put me off the genre completely for a number of years.jesus fucking christ
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Mild Bummer Peeve: Introduced idea of Thing to Do
, got undermined with this “ok, but” attitude and the moment passed. Which is what it is… like, if someone isn’t interested in doing what you’re doing, that’s life. Except the vibe shift almost took permission away from other people to show interest? I know that gatekeeping was not at all the intention. Which is all me overthinking the sentiment: this was disappointing and getting that momentum back during a hard work week didn’t happen as naturally as I would have liked.
