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TV series gone awry
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@Solstice said in TV series gone awry:
But since I’m here, I’ll call out Lost and Heroes for squandering things that were really cool ideas by either endlessly refusing to open the mystery box (Damn it, J.J.), or just having absolutely no idea what to do with a premise once it’s gone on for more seasons than expected.
I’m a big fan of The Leftovers and the HBO Watchmen mini-series in part because I feel like you can see Damon Lindelof actually learning from and applying lessons from Where LOST Went Wrong
. I remain sort of a LOST apologist but it definitely did a lot of shit that annoyed me and was narratively shaggy in ways it couldn’t cover for as time went on. -
The last few episodes of the Battlestar Galactica “re-imagining”. I’m still angry about how they squandered it all so very very quickly at the end there. It was such a lazy ending that didn’t meet up with any of the show that had happened before it.
I read an analysis where someone said that the way that the writing team came up with ideas was “put it in because it’s cool and we’ll figure it out later!” and then they got to “later” and they hadn’t figured it out.
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@Snackness said in TV series gone awry:
@Arkandel You could really tell when they ran out of George R. R. Martin material and started going for the lowest hanging fruit.
And then when they decided they were done caring and made all the women characters suck.
(ETA: Except Sansa, she stuck the landing)
Yeah. I think it’s because some characters had a narrative they could fake, either through cool moments (Daenerys flying on a dragon wrecking shit) or raw acting (Gwendoline Christie and Nikolaj Coster-Waldau had excellent chemistry).
But they couldn’t set up the moving pieces at all. Characters like Littlefinger or Lord Varys require setting up before they can shine. They need to see moves ahead of time, which means there have to be moves for them to see.
Instead they died just to wrap up their arcs before the series ended.
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@Solstice said in TV series gone awry:
But since I’m here, I’ll call out Lost and Heroes for squandering things that were really cool ideas by either endlessly refusing to open the mystery box (Damn it, J.J.), or just having absolutely no idea what to do with a premise once it’s gone on for more seasons than expected.
While I don’t blame the writers for striking, the fact that they did strike contributed a non-zero amount of reason why every show got weird and stumbled a bit.
Also the massive delay between parts 1 and 2 of a season contributed to studios selling each half of a Boxed Set at full price, which is extra grievous and proof we should have started eating the rich years ago.
@Rathenhope said in TV series gone awry:
The last few episodes of the Battlestar Galactica “re-imagining”. I’m still angry about how they squandered it all so very very quickly at the end there. It was such a lazy ending that didn’t meet up with any of the show that had happened before it.
They were amazing and I love them all. Just the outright zaniness of the sudden turn into crazy, it hits as fast as the ‘suddenly vampires!’ in From Dusk til Dawn, but also hits multiple times for different reveals.
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True Blood was terrible from the start, but at the beginning, it seemed to have a real awareness of how cheesy it was and lean into that. I made it five seasons, but after that, it felt like it had gone so far into character flanderization and needing more ridiculous things that I was done.
Basically with the death of the one character at the start of the last season, just left a foul taste in my mouth.
I’m okay with cheesy dumb vampire stories, but apparently I have my limit.
ETA: All that said, “I LOVE YOU JASON STACKHOUSE” is perhaps my favorite moment in the whole series.
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My husband recommended Boston Legal and in the first episode
SPOILER (where is the little crossed out eye for hiding stuff?!)
William Shatner’s character is screwing the wife of a client
End spoiler!
And I feel like that is too on brand for Shatner that this can only go downhill from here.
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@Solstice said in TV series gone awry:
But since I’m here, I’ll call out Lost and Heroes for squandering things that were really cool ideas by either endlessly refusing to open the mystery box (Damn it, J.J.), or just having absolutely no idea what to do with a premise once it’s gone on for more seasons than expected.
Lost: I might be in the minority but I loved that they did not explain it all. As the writers talked about when people flipped after the finale, the story was about the characters, not the island. Part of the beauty of the show (from how I saw it) was that the island was explained each step of the way as the story progressed by the characters that knew about it. When we met characters who knew more about the history, we learned more about the island. By the end, we learned a crazy amount of stuff about the island, but people still wanted to know more. It wasn’t enough to show that there were immortal beings who lived on the island for thousands of years who didn’t fully understand what the island was, but people still expected that they should get all the the answers. I guess people wanted a user manual for the island and were aggravated that they didn’t get one. I don’t think any explanation would have been good enough to satisfy people. Some things are better left unsaid. This was one of them. Ultimately, I think people ended up being annoyed that the show didn’t turn out to be what they wanted it to be instead of enjoying the show for what it was.
Heroes: I think they did know what they wanted to do, but the turnover in the writers’ room caused them to keep changing course and that just led the show to go nowhere. A truly disappointing missed opportunity. The thing I remember most about that show is that Sylar spent an entire season just riding in a car on a road trip. An entire season.
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@Rathenhope said in TV series gone awry:
The last few episodes of the Battlestar Galactica “re-imagining”. I’m still angry about how they squandered it all so very very quickly at the end there. It was such a lazy ending that didn’t meet up with any of the show that had happened before it.
I read an analysis where someone said that the way that the writing team came up with ideas was “put it in because it’s cool and we’ll figure it out later!” and then they got to “later” and they hadn’t figured it out.
I am still angry about this. The dude who created and wrote Babylon 5, arguably one of the best sci-fi series in the last 30 years managed to screw up a series so badly. I can’t watch BSG past season two. I couldn’t take it seriously.
And then it just…goes off the rails. I was already checked out at the Fat Apollo part, and the end just whatever shred credit I had given it finally just slid out of my head.
I don't know what I'm doing. Poke at Seven Nations sevennations.aresmush.com port 2021
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@Testament said in TV series gone awry:
@Rathenhope said in TV series gone awry:
The last few episodes of the Battlestar Galactica “re-imagining”. I’m still angry about how they squandered it all so very very quickly at the end there. It was such a lazy ending that didn’t meet up with any of the show that had happened before it.
I read an analysis where someone said that the way that the writing team came up with ideas was “put it in because it’s cool and we’ll figure it out later!” and then they got to “later” and they hadn’t figured it out.
I am still angry about this. The dude who created and wrote Babylon 5, arguably one of the best sci-fi series in the last 30 years managed to screw up a series so badly. I can’t watch BSG past season two. I couldn’t take it seriously.
I’m not sure if you think J Michael Straczynski made BSG or Ronald Moore made B5 but neither of those things are true; the person who created Babylon 5 did not work on BSG.
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@Testament One of the reasons there may be that some series have a great premise, but it’s spent on their first season.
Prison Break fits in that category very well. It started really strong but come the fuck on, how many times are these guys gonna end up in different prisons only to escape from them?
Series based on ‘mysteries’ like Lost, Flash Forward etc are the same. Viewers are intrigued, but the producers know they’ll lose them as soon as they provide answers so… there are none. And the more convoluted it gets, the harder it is for those answers to be both unexpected and make sense at the same time.
These days I think one of the best models for meta-heavy shows is to do it as self-contained mini series (Wandavision, etc) or to embrace the insanity (Riverdale) - like, don’t even try to take yourself seriously. Resurrect people? Yeah let’s do it. Vampires and angels exist? Okay, fine. How does it all work? It’s magic, silly.
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@Roz said in TV series gone awry:
@Testament said in TV series gone awry:
@Rathenhope said in TV series gone awry:
The last few episodes of the Battlestar Galactica “re-imagining”. I’m still angry about how they squandered it all so very very quickly at the end there. It was such a lazy ending that didn’t meet up with any of the show that had happened before it.
I read an analysis where someone said that the way that the writing team came up with ideas was “put it in because it’s cool and we’ll figure it out later!” and then they got to “later” and they hadn’t figured it out.
I am still angry about this. The dude who created and wrote Babylon 5, arguably one of the best sci-fi series in the last 30 years managed to screw up a series so badly. I can’t watch BSG past season two. I couldn’t take it seriously.
I’m not sure if you think J Michael Straczynski made BSG or Ronald Moore made B5 but neither of those things are true; the person who created Babylon 5 did not work on BSG.
I could’ve sworn Straczynski wrote BSG. But maybe I did mix that up with Moore. Huh.
Or it’s the fact that it’s still early and I got names mixed up. Maybe I got that mixed up with the fact that Moore contributed to Deep Space Nine?
Clearly, I haven’t had enough coffee this morning either way.
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@WhiteRaven said in TV series gone awry:
Almost every period movie / TV series about ancient history…
Black Sails is like, my gold standard even though it too, is horrifically hollywooded in places and not at all accurate with some of the people…
But whatever, I still enjoy it a lot.
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@Arkandel said in TV series gone awry:
Series based on ‘mysteries’ like Lost, Flash Forward etc are the same. Viewers are intrigued, but the producers know they’ll lose them as soon as they provide answers so… there are none.
It’s been ages since I watched it, but I thought Flash Forward did a pretty good job? A lot of plot threads set up in the pilot were resolved throughout the season, and I felt most of the flash-forwards paid off pretty satisfactorily in the season finale.
Prison Break’s first season did a similar good job IMHO - they had a solid premise, they paid off things as they went along, and it culminated in the titular escape. (Yeah it was kinda over the top and implausible, but I still enjoyed it.)
I think a big problem with high-concept shows like Prison Break is they become victims of their own success. The show-runners insist on milking it far beyond their ability to generate interesting plotlines.
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@Faraday IIRC Supernatural followed that pattern although instead it was the producers who got greedy, and the showrunner left after the number of seasons they had planned to run it all along (six?).
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@Faraday Flash Forward did well because it was one season. Now imagine 5+ seasons, each one retconning the real reason one obscure thing in season one happened. That’s the thing about mystery boxes - you need the whole thing set up in advance, and most people… don’t.
Mummy Pun? MUMMY PUN!
She/her -
So far, knock on wood, Severance is a wonderful example of a Mystery Box that’s actually slowly opening and trickle-answering questions as it goes, and I am very invested in it.
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@Solstice said in TV series gone awry:
So far, knock on wood, Severance is a wonderful example of a Mystery Box that’s actually slowly opening and trickle-answering questions as it goes, and I am very invested in it.
SEVERANCE IS SO GOOD OMFG
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What separates man from machine is that machines cannot think for themselves. Also, they are made of metal whereas man is made of skin.
At the center of industry… is dust.
I love this fucking show.
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@Jennkryst said in TV series gone awry:
@Faraday Flash Forward did well because it was one season. Now imagine 5+ seasons, each one retconning the real reason one obscure thing in season one happened. That’s the thing about mystery boxes - you need the whole thing set up in advance, and most people… don’t.
Yes, but my point was that even within the first season they did a good job of setting up and paying off the mysteries. At least for the story of season 1, they had a plan. Same with Prison Break.
Contrast that with a show like Falling Skies where it ended s1 with the main char getting on an alien ship without any flipping clue where they were going with that idea. Or Lost, or BSG, where it’s clear they painted themselves into a storytelling corner because they had no plan from the start.
I get why shows do this. It’s hard to plan things that far in advance, especially not knowing if you’re going to get renewed past half a season. It’s just frustrating from a storytelling perspective.
