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Real Life Struggles/Support/Vent
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@RightMeow I can only answer for me, but my understanding of the boundary between optimism and toxic positivity is that the latter is used to shut down or dismiss other people’s legitimate reactions or emotions. It’s not toxic positivity to want people to get along and be kind to each other. It’s toxic positivity to tell someone not to talk about something abusive someone did because “this is a happy place” or “it would ruin the mood”.
I genuinely think we could all use a bit more optimism and a little less petty needling at each other, so I don’t think you should feel bad about wanting that. It’s just a matter of reading the room and recognizing that sometimes people need to talk about things that aren’t positive, and it’s okay for them to do that.
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@RightMeow said in Real Life Struggles/Support/Vent:
If you have interacted with me at all for any sort of time, you know I’m an overthinker. Part of that is I will never think the praise is about me, but I’ll think everything negative is. Yeah, yeah. I know.
Onwards.
Positive toxicity.
I’m fucking optimistic. I have been all my RL and people have accused me of being fake. I’ve had to alter who I am at my core for my friends IRL (they are not actually my friends currently) to not be so positive. I’ve been told to shut up when I am being authentically who I am.
I tend to end posts here about being kind to each other. Not to dismiss others because I’m also (I thought) pretty supportive of what people feel. You feel your feels. Your feels are valid. It’s just I have been in such a dark place after run-ins with people (DownWithOPP/Ruiz/etc) and the fall out from all of that – it’s almost like hey just a quick reminder to breathe.
Soooo… now I’m confused and this confusion is stupidly effecting me RL.
What is the line between just being an optimist with ADHD (which probably means I’m hyper happy) and being toxic?
Should I not post? Should I not say uplifting things? Should I not point out good points? I’m genuinely confused and not sure, but it is never my intent to harm. I’m just who I am and maybe that’s a bad thing?
Anyways - I don’t think the original vent was at me as I don’t think I interact with the person, but it’s caused me to be curious.
Also, this is a genuine ask, not a tell me I’m great or anything. Where it the line? What do you alter? If you are a RL optimist at what point of alteration for others do you then become unauthentic?
Toxic positivity has a lot of aspects. One of them is what @Pyrephox mentioned above. Other aspects are the performative, public displays of “omg you are all so great forever” that I see a lot, especially when they end up humble-posting about “omg you guys, you’re so nice that you even replied to my nice post about how nice I am, wow”.
It creates a thin veneer that can be used to cover up things that aren’t so nice, things that are toxic and problematic.
I don’t think being positive is a bad thing. I work hard to be positive and express that positivity when it’s has merit. If I’m chatting about something on my game and someone says the people there are friendly, I express that yeah, I’m really proud of how friendly the game culture is, or whatever. But I don’t go out of my way to post random page-long stuff on public forums about “OMG EVERYONE HERE IS SO GREAT”.
Like most things, I think toxic positivity is contextual.
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When it is used primarily to help the person soothe their own discomfort over another person’s strong feelings.
When it is directing others while not even asking about their experiences and why they may be criticizing or enacting a firmer boundary than the person being “uplifting” would.
When that person is inappropriately inserting themselves as arbiter of what can be said and in what tone.
And yes honestly when someone seems to center their worth and value in reminding people at every turn, it can come across as performative/off-putting especially for people who have experience the predatory side of toxic positivity/keep sweet.
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I think it may also help to define what one means as far as being an optimist.
In my RL I am often someone who is called supportive and nurturing and someone who helps others feel safe or like its going to be okay because we will be able to problem solve together or because they know that they can depend on me to come through with resources or support even if that’s just listening without inserting my unasked for commentary. Is that an optimist? I don’t do rah rah cheerleading or encourage people to feel or do something they’re not in a space to. I find shutting people off from worry/anger/ect actually makes things worse. I learned how to listen and to frankly shut up more so I could actually help instead of being in the way by making a lot of mistakes. I’ve had a lot of opportunities to do that based on the jobs I’ve had and the community work I like.
I escaped the high demand group I was raised in but it took me a long time to break free of the mentality they imposed on me and honestly there’s simply just some things within me that are and will remain ugly broken. However, pretty much everyone has something like that in their lives. I tend to assume that people generally are doing the best they can. And its okay to acknowledge that while also saying “but you’re going to have to leave this game,” “I don’t want you to contact me again,” “I am angry/hurt and I am going to express it even if you don’t like how I do it,” ect. You can love someone deeply while also being angry at them. Or rejecting some of the actions they’ve chosen to take.
I am constantly amazed by the strength and resilience I see in people every day. If they invite me to be part of that process I enjoy that very much. But nobody has ever improved because I reminded them to unsolicited, or because I was so great that I alone gave them wisdom that nobody else could. I don’t know that I think optimism or pessimism is superior or inferior. To me that is mostly about the future outlook and most of my personal aim is to when I’m at my best try to make sure they know that I’m seeing them right now.
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My experience with toxic positivity are sayings like…
“Remember to smile even when you’re feeling down.”
“Think positive thoughts, always.”
“You’re in control of your mood, so only you get to decide whether you’re going to be happy today.”
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My experience with this sort of toxic positivity was when at a youth group in my teens I was asked to give my “testimony”. And I talked about how hard it was to leave my mother and her abusive husband to go live with my dad. And I got a little emotional about it.
Afterward, the youth pastor told me it was inappropriate because testimonials should be “happier”.
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Mine is more along the lines of:
“Just love him as he is, and by doing that he’ll see that how he is treating you is wrong.”
“By showing a good example of sacrificial love and kindness, you won’t turn people away from lessons they need to learn.”
“You know, when you don’t say things nicely, people who might have helped you/been and ally just get turned off because you make them feel bad!”
“Remember their words/actions are just because they are hurt. You need to keep sweet and be the thing that helps them feel better!”
“Just believe and have faith, and things will get better. If it feels like it won’t, believe even harder!” -
Public Education is AWASH in toxic positivity.
I believe all kids can learn. I believe all kids can be taught pro-social behaviors without eliminating their unique selves.
But the bullshit “Do this sticker chart and it will work out!” pisses me off.
Toxic Positivity was at its worst during the pandemic. We were told how “exciting” and “innovative” it was to teach online and in person. But it wasn’t. It was hard soul-crushing work that broke good educators. And any time we went “This isn’t working” or “I can’t keep doing this” we were told to stop being so negative. Weren’t we here for the kids? Weren’t we superheroes?
No, just educators with legit concerns that are being smashed.
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Thank you all for your thoughts and shares on this. I’m still turning it over in my head, but thank you!
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@junipersky we see this a lot in ECE as well. Honestly I think some of it is due to the social conditioning that still exists in educational fields that are seen as predominately women to keep to those keep sweet and sacrificial love expectations of women in particular.
The expectation that low pay should be expected because its a “calling” and its just work during the school year (with a side helping of divide and conquer when it turns into "but at least we are not just babysitters like those daycare providers), that any teacher if they love “their kids” they’ll also supplement the classroom out of their own pocket (this happens in ECE frequently), what do you mean you want to be paid for meetings/school events don’t you care about the kids, what kind of person are you if you say you’re struggling with this kid that you’re supposed to know how to deal with, if you were committed you’d figure it out its just working with kids, ect. And increasingly there’s an expectation that even if you have your own family and life, you should accept that you should absolutely take a bullet for or from the kids in your classroom because that’s what good teachers do.
I am glad to see there’s some revolt going on in ECE as well. But I think its going to be a long fight before the predatory work behaviors of employers and ridiculous expectations to grin and bear anything in the name of caring about the people you take care of are broken.
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@mietze said in Real Life Struggles/Support/Vent:
But I think its going to be a long fight before the predatory work behaviors of employers and ridiculous expectations to grin and bear anything in the name of caring about the people you take care of are broken.
For sure, and honestly, I don’t see it being won within my lifetime. I think it is more likely that public education will be completely privatized in parts of the country under the hands of those who never liked it to begin with, then teachers of all levels will get anything close to what other professionals enjoy.
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My mother leaned into toxic positivity so hard that I stopped speaking to her. Everything was always “fine” and you just need to repeat that it’s fine and it will be fine! Pediatrician referring you to a pediatric endocrinologist? Don’t worry about it, they don’t need to do that, they’re fine! Having them see doctors is going to give them a complex! Schools flagging your kid for reading below grade level? Don’t worry about it they’re fine! Just let them go at their own pace! School recommending an IEP? You’re going to give them a complex, they’re perfect, everything is fine, they don’t need any extra help! Trying to find a kid a therapist for emotional regulation issues, well what did you do to make them that way? They don’t need a therapist you just need to be a better, more positive parent! They’re fine!
Repeat for oh, everything.
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Getting hit super hard in the face with back to school blues. I have my own life independent of my kids, even the youngest one. I discovered how important that was when I went to massage school and opened my own biz after being a hard-core SAHM and PTA/school volunteer and human appointment book for everything for 13 years, it was a little hard on everyone else but they stepped up and seemed to see me a little more
So its not like I will have a radical identity shift of whatever that I’ve seen other friends go though. But. My eldest will graduate college this year and will be working in a different city so he can be with his partner–he won’t be coming home because he’s making a new one! The other two college kids will be graduating college the year after this one and may not be coming home next summer either because both are dead set on internships. After this year my surprise baby will just have one more year of elementary school.
I dont know. Things feel different. I intellectually knew that this was the last summer for me to have all my kids at home really but its hitting me hard in the feels. None of it is bad. But im just feeling really kind of down while also really enjoying seeing them start the launch process. So if I seem sad or whatever I am. Everything is as it should be but it still gives me the blues to feel left behind even if its normal.
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I really don’t know what I’m gonna do with myself yet when my kiddo hits that old dusty trail for college and the thought makes me really sad but happy in a similar way, so this made me pretty misty-eyed, especially the bit about going off to make a new home. Sounds like you’ve been a great parent.
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I have officially stopped avoiding the dentist out of a fear of pain.
I have officially started avoiding the dentist because who can afford this shit?
love that perfect frown
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I got a random $50 refund from my dentist! But I get it, dentists are EXPENSIVE.
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I may actually quit or get fired by my job by the end of the week. I think I’ve reached my limit as it relates to organizational incapacity. An entire application for postconviction, with not even an indexed file to reference. Just a single paper a law clerk wrote that inaccurately summarizes the situation and has no citations to the record.
We’ve had this case since the beginning of the year. I got it two weeks ago. And I’ve been told by my boss today that, because I had the temerity to request the assistance of clerks on the matter, that if I’m going to “blow the deadline” of THIS FRIDAY that I should let him know so he can take care of it.
Take care of it HOW, motherfucker, you’ve had the case for THE ENTIRE YEAR and you let an attorney spend THREE WEEKS ON IT
I’m going back to researching but holy shit do I need to blow off some steam before I kill someone
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Had a fullblown anxiety attack that bordered on mental breakdown at work today. It was so bad that my SO took me to the ER. Bad enough that they almost made me an intake patient when I admitted increase in thoughts of self harm. Eventually, they decided not to, largely because my SO had her shit together with having paperwork from her psychiatrist there.
I still have the EKG tags on me. I took a two hour nap when I came back, longest nap I’ve taken in a good long time. But I hadn’t realized how not okay I’ve been and I’ve just been dealing with it. Until I couldn’t deal with it any longer. And now that the hydroxyine is starting to wear off, while I feel less…numb(this is a really good anti-anxiety medication), I’m terrified of where to go form here.
I don't know what I'm doing. Poke at Seven Nations sevennations.aresmush.com port 2021
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Firstly, huge hugs/good vibes/prayers/whatever you like best sent your way. I’ve been in the ER for anxiety… a lot. Probably over ten times at this point.
Secondly, it sounds like this isn’t your first rodeo with anxiety, but if it is, here’s what you do. First, do everything in your power to curb avoidance of what is making you anxious. Avoidant behavior makes anxiety really, really bad (source: in recovery for severe agoraphobia). Second, see a psychatrist asap. If you can’t see a psychiatrist, see your primary care doctor. Be open to them about what’s happening and ask for medicine. If you have an addictive personality or a history of substance abuse, make sure they’re aware of that before they prescribe you any benzodiazepenes. Having anti-anxiety meds will help you stabilize so you can move on to the third and most important step–therapy.
You’re probably gonna have to do therapy. It sounds like you may need to do some intensive therapy. Find a specialist in cognitive behavioral therapy. Cognitive behavioral therapy, along with exposure therapy, is an extremely effective method of treating anxiety and depression, which it sounds like you also have.
None of this is easy. If it were, I wouldn’t be a half-employed lawyer who struggles to bill 15 hours a week and who needs her parents to drive her places at 33 years of age. It frequently REALLY SUCKS. But it’s doable. I’m making huge strides in my recovery.
You’ve got this. If you need to DM someone who has been through this shit, whether to ask for advice, chat about it, or just scream directly into a sympathetic ear, I’m here.
I’m rooting for you.
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My husband started to have anxiety attacks in the last year, and he is having a really hard time with what has basically been my entire life. I feel so much for him. I’ve had years to learn how to cope, go to therapy at least twice a month (Better Help isn’t cheap, but the ability to go more often than every two months like when I used my insurance is golden.), and have medication to keep me more on an even keel.
Getting him to agree to go back to therapy has been really hard though. He doesn’t want to admit that this is going to be a persist problem. But it is going to he. Between his high stress job and us starting fostering there isn’t a single chance that this will just “fix” itself.
The brain makes pathways though. Having a panic attack is way easier of a pathway then rationally thinking through the problem and finding reasonable solutions in a stressful moment. Healthy? Nah. But easier.
