Requring Character Connections at Chargen

[Wizz]

@Third-Eye said in Requring Character Connections at Chargen:

The NPC thing makes this less of a hurdle than I’d initially imagined, but I still ultimately think it’s wrong-headed and not going to do much to motivate people to RP or connect. Players will do that on their own, or they won’t, and ultimately I think staff is better-served encouraging this outside CG once people hit the grid. I also can’t see at all how this would help stop creepers/bad actors. Like, literally at all, how do people think it’s gonna do this?
ETA: Is part of this a reaction to how spread out Star Wars games tend to be? With players playing every possible faction/on every possible planet? This place seems to…not be doing that, which seems like a better way get at the ‘nobody has a reason to RP with each other’ issue.

I dunno if this is 100% why the game in question made this choice, but just for the sake of maybe adding some clarity, this is how generating a PC works in FATE, which is what they’re using. Backgrounds have three “phases,” the second of which is character connections.

Works great at a table, but does not translate at all to MU*s IMHO.

[MisterBoring]

I’m divided on requiring connections at CG.

My ideal game would be a smaller playerbase (no more than 20 or so players), and I’d want all of the player characters to have at least 1-2 connections from the start, because that connection would be part of the setting.

However, in practice, I feel like requiring it is a bit more tricky. It really depends on how a player writes a new character. If that character is meant to be an established person in the community represented by the game world, then yes, I would require that player to set up some connections with other PCs before approval, maybe 3 at most. If the character is new in town (or planet or dimension or whatever), then no, connections aren’t required. But in both cases, I’d probably offer some level of incentive to have some connections at character creation, and incentivize new connections in play as well.

[icanbeyourmuse]

@MisterBoring said in Requring Character Connections at Chargen:

I’m divided on requiring connections at CG.

My ideal game would be a smaller playerbase (no more than 20 or so players), and I’d want all of the player characters to have at least 1-2 connections from the start, because that connection would be part of the setting.

However, in practice, I feel like requiring it is a bit more tricky. It really depends on how a player writes a new character. If that character is meant to be an established person in the community represented by the game world, then yes, I would require that player to set up some connections with other PCs before approval, maybe 3 at most. If the character is new in town (or planet or dimension or whatever), then no, connections aren’t required. But in both cases, I’d probably offer some level of incentive to have some connections at character creation, and incentivize new connections in play as well.

Requiring connections doesn’t really build comfort levels with the person (since not everyone comes in knowing people). Another alternative is to encourage people to join as a group. Don’t make it required or anything but encourage it so people bring their friends. It typically gives them a built in connection. Maybe not to the current playerbase but it does provide the reason to RP.

[Faraday]

@MisterBoring said in Requring Character Connections at Chargen:

If that character is meant to be an established person in the community represented by the game world, then yes, I would require that player to set up some connections with other PCs before approval, maybe 3 at most.

But why put that burden on a new player who has no idea who’s who? Why not let players build those connections more organically in the first days/weeks of RP?

(First time RPing with NewPerson) “Oh, I see you’re the baker. You’d probably know my char as a regular, since they have a total sweet tooth.”

That’s how we’ve always done it on BSG games where there’s a mix of established crewmates and new faces, and it’s always worked just fine.

EDIT: I have no problem encouraging people to create connections in chargen, only with requiring it.

[shit-piss-love]

What if I want to play a character that is an outsider? (I usually do)

[MisterBoring]

So in my ideal game, the players would basically be a hand picked group who were familiar and comfortable with each other from other games, so requiring them to have connections at CG doesn’t seem bad. Again, in my ideal game. Not every game. Just my dream game.

At the same time, @icanbeyourmuse is right on the money about comfort levels. Which I think can even effect trying to build connections organically during RP. If you’re not yet comfortable with someone and they’re trying to connect by being a regular at the bakery, denying that can leave a bad feel for all parties involved. I’ve seen it happen, and I try (when I do get around to playing) to prevent that where I can.

As far as people playing total outsiders, if the setting allows for it, go for it. I would never incentivize it, but I definitely don’t have a problem for it where the game world and narrative have space for it.

[mietze]

@shit-piss-love probably games that don’t really want outsider characters will be a poor fit. Better to know up front so as to not waste everyone’s time but I think that’s something that should be clearly spelled out rather than hinted at.

[sao]

I like to make connections at character generation when it suits me but if a game told me I had to talk to strangers and figure out how I was connected to them I would noperocket into the sun.

[Pyrephox]

@sao I wouldn’t mind, but I think I would prefer for a game to just give me those connections. For example, if I were making a, I don’t know, psychic mechanic, I’d love for a game to say, “Okay, based on your background, you definitely at least know of Player A, B, and C. I’m copying them on this mail so you guys can figure out what that knowing might look like, and if you have previous interactions.”

But I do like interconnected characters, and don’t think it’s a wrong choice to have people need those connections for their characters, depending on the game. It’d clearly turn a lot of people off, but it might attract some, too.

[DrQuinn]

@Pyrephox Or even just a board with possible connections where people could post and say “I’m a mechanic who also plays board games! Feel free to ping me while you’re in chargen for a connection or connect with me once you’re on grid.”

That way you could also allow people to set preferences like: I’m okay with someone including me as a connection without talking to me OR no randos please, talk to me before you make a connection.

I know when Arx implemented the connection thing I was shocked to find myself on someone’s list in what seemed like a not-so-complimentary way–but I then found out who wrote it and it wasn’t meant that way so it was fine, but it was real jolting to see before that, so I made sure if I included anyone on any rosters I wrote I always checked in with the person to see if they were okay with it first.

[Third Eye]

@Pyrephox said in Requring Character Connections at Chargen:

@sao I wouldn’t mind, but I think I would prefer for a game to just give me those connections. For example, if I were making a, I don’t know, psychic mechanic, I’d love for a game to say, “Okay, based on your background, you definitely at least know of Player A, B, and C. I’m copying them on this mail so you guys can figure out what that knowing might look like, and if you have previous interactions.”

Yeah, I felt kinda softer on this when I saw you could use NPCs because I actually would do that. Like, saying I trained under a specific Jedi master or worked for a written NPC rebellion leader on past missions feels helpful in terms of orienting a character and as an affirmation someone read theme info staff considers important. That’s kind of appealing to me, versus just saying I know some dude who’s been in 3 scenes because we went to the same bar or whatever. It also feels like a more long-term workable way to integrate the FATE stuff @Wizz described on a public game.

[Faraday]

@sao said in Requring Character Connections at Chargen:

if a game told me I had to talk to strangers and figure out how I was connected to them I would noperocket into the sun.

I wish I could extra upvote this just for the colorful wording. That’s exactly how I feel.

@Third-Eye said in Requring Character Connections at Chargen:

Yeah, I felt kinda softer on this when I saw you could use NPCs because I actually would do that.

That’s interesting, because I wondered how using NPCs would actually accomplish anything. Are staff going to run these NPCs regularly? If not, what’s the difference between saying I trained with the one special NPC jedi master, or some other one I invented in my BG?

[Warma Sheen]

Before I respond, just remember that this is a Star Wars game with kaiju that eats planets and the Death Star was being built to stop them, but the Rebels blew it up so now the whole galaxy is at risk of being nom nom nommed because of them. The top Jedi is an openly force-lightning wielding darksider (who leads with Luke Skywalker’s blessing) who also leads the New Republic’s military, even though they’re totally separate entities, who is prone to snap and yell at his subordinates for little reason because of the dark side and the brain pains he gets because the entirety of the Jedi Archives was placed inside his head before Order 66 - and everyone knows and is cool with all of it. No one leading things in this SW universe sees anything wrong with any of this. All perfectly fine.

SO. When you ask, ‘Why would they make X decision?’ Just know, that might not even rank of the list of jacked up decisions made at this place.

@Wizz said in Requring Character Connections at Chargen:

Works great at a table, but does not translate at all to MU*s IMHO.

How it translates on this game is new players show up and get to that section of chargen and say ‘I don’t know anyone!’ and the staff says, ‘Well you can use my player bit as a connection’ and then all the players have all their connections to the staff’s PC bits who are at the center of everything and everything revolves around them.

@Faraday said in Requring Character Connections at Chargen:

That’s interesting, because I wondered how using NPCs would actually accomplish anything. Are staff going to run these NPCs regularly?

Nope. Not for other players, anyway. For other staff characters yes. Everyone else, you’ll probably never see them again. If you do, do you think staff there will remember your character’s connection to them? Good luck.

@Faraday said in Requring Character Connections at Chargen:

If not, what’s the difference between saying I trained with the one special NPC jedi master, or some other one I invented in my BG?

Absolutely nothing. Well… except that with established NPCs they can tell you how wrong you are about what you wrote and how they wouldn’t do X, Y, and Z and make you go back to change your background to how they view that NPC.

[Roadspike]

I don’t know that I would be comfortable playing on a game that required me to make connections to existing PCs whose player I didn’t know, but knowing that NPCs can be used makes it better.

I think that having multiple connections to a single NPC (or small group of NPCs) can allow those connections to be forged but with a degree of separation (“Oh, you work with Bob Medicman? I supply him with good booze.”) that can make things more comfortable.

On Empty Night, we were planning to have all of our PCs have some explicit connection to an avuncular NPC wizard, so that all of the PCs would be part of the same community. Said wizard would be regularly played for the first couple of months of the game, and then would be killed on-screen. The intent was to give the PCs reason to draw together instead of fragmenting into little groups.

I can understand the reasoning behind wanting to have characters come onto the grid with connections, but I certainly wouldn’t want to play anywhere that required those connections be to a PC whose player is a stranger to me.

[shit-piss-love]

@Warma-Sheen This context really illuminates. I think we’re all over here trying to figure out how this policy would possibly be of benefit, without considering it might simply be for the benefit of specific people not the new players.

[Polk]

I think a game’s setting and premise should be sufficient to give characters connections.

WoD games are really good at this. The rich, immersive, emotionally-charged metaplot gives people an easy way to IFF.

Comic book games are great at it.

Star Wars games are good at it.

What really falls down are the slice-of-life, homebrew settings that are just “Here’s a town. It is <haunted/post-apocalyptic/gossipy/emperiled>” that have more difficulty.

[YetiBeard]

The thing about pre-setting up connections for me is that often looking at char sheets and thinking about a new char you have an idea of how a relationship or connection might work. I have very rarely had pre-made connections work out in RP the way I thought they would at app time unless I specifically knew the player and how we tend to RP together.

The number of times I’ve spent figuring out connections with strangers ahead of time only for them to have no bearing on anything RP-wise is very high.

To be clear, I’m pro-hooks for figuring out how two char might know or bump into one another, but full on connections have rarely panned out for me.

Also @Polk I do agree that WoD/Comics/Star Wars might have easier baked in connections, I think that the homebrew small town games have where I’ve found it easiest to forge on camera ones.

[Pyrephox]

@YetiBeard said in Requring Character Connections at Chargen:

The thing about pre-setting up connections for me is that often looking at char sheets and thinking about a new char you have an idea of how a relationship or connection might work. I have very rarely had pre-made connections work out in RP the way I thought they would at app time unless I specifically knew the player and how we tend to RP together.

The number of times I’ve spent figuring out connections with strangers ahead of time only for them to have no bearing on anything RP-wise is very high.

To be clear, I’m pro-hooks for figuring out how two char might know or bump into one another, but full on connections have rarely panned out for me.

Also @Polk I do agree that WoD/Comics/Star Wars might have easier baked in connections, I think that the homebrew small town games have where I’ve found it easiest to forge on camera ones.

I’ve been thinking about this a lot, because I’ve experienced the same thing. I don’t really want PC family - family is a huge influence on a PC’s heart and demeanor, and I often like complicated or even hostile relationships with family because it provides more fun things to develop within the character as conflict - and any sort of preset ‘relationship’ runs into the fact that our PCs might not actually play off of each other that way. We might not be friends! Or you might think of the ‘friend’ relationship very differently than I do.

So these days, I try to make “event-based” connections when something goes beyond “oh yeah, we went to the same place/knew the same people”. I.e. here is a time in the past where the two of us were involved the same event - what was that and how did it turn out? Each PC is absolutely in charge of how their PC feels about that event and about the other PC’s participation in that event…one person can walk away going ‘oh that was keen’ while the other is ‘next time I see that jerk I’m punching him’, but you just have to OOC agree on the objective facts of what the event was and what each PC did.

[Polk]

@YetiBeard I’ve long been a fan of developing the nuances of my PC on grid. I don’t want to figure out every detail in advance.

[SpaceKhomeini]

Yeah I feel like, in my case, pre-existing ties often feel like a chore and seldom work out on-camera.

Also, there’s nothing that makes me feel like reaching for the “nope button” harder than wandering into a game where the vast majority of people have done that (unless I know most of the players previously but that can still be iffy) and here’s my dumb noob ass, sitting down at the lunch table.