Historical Games Round 75
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@KarmaBum said in New Concept:
@Pavel said in New Concept:
The timeline diverges the minute the game starts
No. The timeline in this instance was unaltered. There was stuff for this particular small town, but there was no larger rewriting of global political history.
Thatâs not what I meant. When a game starts, what happens after is a diverged timeline from reality.
Besides, I was answering your question generally, not specifically.
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@Pavel I know. I was speaking specifically.
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@KarmaBum Please donât use smileys when youâre talking to me, I rather dislike them.
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@farfalla Iâm admittedly not explaining myself the well but I agree with what @KarmaBum said below and pretty much sums up my feelings on the matter. Although just to add some clarity, Iâm not saying these things shouldnât affect your character or that it shouldnât be an important part of their background, but it also doesnât have to be the focal point of the story? Like I donât need to be fighting monsters while also actively treating another PC like shit because of <insert -ism here>.
Hopefully that makes sense. Words are hard.
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@KarmaBum said in New Concept:
Honest question: does the fact that itâs historical and not modern have an impact?
Why would you call me out like this omg. I honestly donât know! I think the answer is yes, but I donât know why. Scale maybe? I typed up some answers but I think they get too political for poor @BloodAngelâs post about the cthulu game lol. But itâs definitely easier for me to ignore covid than, like, slavery.
@bear_necessities said in New Concept:
Although just to add some clarity, Iâm not saying these things shouldnât affect your character or that it shouldnât be an important part of their background, but it also doesnât have to be the focal point of the story?
I wasnât arguing with you, sorry if it came across that way! Your post just made me think about it. I very much understand this position, in the same way that I understand people who canât BAT. I was just interested in my own reaction, which is that I donât want to have it inform my character I just want to kiss ladies, but ignoring it feels weird.
My thoughts are probably also informed by the fact that Iâve never played a historical game, in part because I couldnât get past this hurdle and in part because there just arenât that many. And Iâve only played two contemporary games - Iâm mostly in fantasy land, tbh, where I appreciate not having to deal with the modern day oppressions.
I do definitely think itâs just a random person to person preference with no right answer, in the same way that grid vs no grid or logging vs not logging or an infinite number of other preferences are.
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@farfalla said in New Concept:
logging vs not logging
I draw a line in the sand here. People who donât log are weird and wrong and should be ashamed of themselves. Itâs unnatural.
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@farfalla I didnât think you are arguing at all, no need to apologize! I am just not great with words anymore these days so I wanted to make my point a little clearer lol
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@farfalla said in New Concept:
Why would you call me out like this omg.
Because we donât RP anywhere and havenât in years SO THIS IS THE ONLY PLACE I ENGAGE WITH YOU OK?!
Also because I genuinely care about your opinion! Youâre a good RPer who just has a totally different set of preferences from mine. And I know (or at least hope!) that you can talk across the divide without taking it personally.
@farfalla said in New Concept:
Iâm mostly in fantasy land, tbh, where I appreciate not having to deal with the modern day oppressions.
And this is kinda what I thought. I remember you didnât even play that long, so I was wondering if that was part of what factored into it - that the real world just ainât yo thang.
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@KarmaBum I definitely didnât take it personally, donât worry!
Iâd like to play on a modern game there just hasnât been one that worked for me for various other reasons.
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@KarmaBum said in New Concept:
We do this all the time in modern settings. I believe Keys and Network both have a âno COVIDâ take on things, no? So is it harder to put out of mind because itâs historical?
No, if your game is set in 2023, I would have the same same uncanny valley problem. What exactly does a 2020 without covid look like? What happened instead? What didnât happen?
@Testament said in New Concept:
âIâm never going to make a character or a player feel like that.â
I respect that compassion immensely. I too want people to feel safe, and do worry about toxic people inflicting distress under the banner of âbut history!â Iâm not sure I would ever run another open historical game for that reason. I think about doing a sci fi western sometimes to have a similar âlawless frontierâ feel without the baggage, but itâs a lot of work to define something original.
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@Faraday said in New Concept:
I think about doing a sci fi western sometimes to have a similar âlawless frontierâ feel without the baggage, but itâs a lot of work to define something original.
Firefly could work as a setting, if you were of a mind.
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Huh.
I donât see why anything should stop you from removing the bigotry, with no explanation and no lampshade. As âBridgertonâ has done. It is a historical fantasy and we donât really have to worry about, or even ask, why some English aristocrats are Black in 1813. We can enjoy a show about romance and social manipulations and pretend the period had no racism and that the classism wasnât really relevant. We can even watch âHarlotsâ the next night and enjoy characters battling very highly relevant racism, classism and sexism without it ruining âBridgertonâ or getting confused and thinking itâs the same fictional reality.
Nobody wants really accurate historicals, itâs too much reading and you get somebody like me saying, âNo, you donât have a Golden Retriever, they didnât exist until 1908, no, there is no chocolate in medieval Italy and you donât have an oven either, no, your pirate ship is not called âAces Wildâ because we predate poker by over 200 years,â and so on.
Speaking of ships: CoC on an ocean-liner, with nods to shit like those Bermuda Triangle X-Files episodes and such.
Edited to Add: Not that I lack sympathy for those who do hate these inaccuracies and find they interfere with suspension of disbelief. I had to put (Sexy) Rome on pause to swear for several minutes about how there are so many parrots in that show and every single one of them is S. American or Australian, when the Old World has plenty of parrots that Romans really would have.
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@Gashlycrumb said in New Concept:
Nobody wants really accurate historicals,
Eh. Back in the day I played straight-up historical MUs with no supernatural or alt-history adaptation, and I did enjoy them (I do not think I RPâd anything particularly horrific, either). I think the audience for them is niche and small, and thereâs a large swathe of players who need to self-select out of them for various reasons, but folks who want to play Band of Brothers or Downton Abbey do exist. Whether those games could exist now in the same way they did 15 years ago, IDK, and that makes me a bit bummed. Still something I could see playing in a closed group and enjoying, though.
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@Third-Eye I love them, but they were very niche even when the hobby was larger. And I actually did tell people stuff like âGolden Retrievers donât exist yetâ, and had to learn to STFU about these details, or at least make it abundantly clear that I was saying it because itâs interesting, not 'cause I think itâs bad to âcastâ a Golden in an 1865 setting.
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@Gashlycrumb said in New Concept:
Huh.
I donât see why anything should stop you from removing the bigotry, with no explanation and no lampshade. As âBridgertonâ has done. It is a historical fantasy and we donât really have to worry about, or even ask, why some English aristocrats are Black in 1813.
I wish that was what Bridgerton had done â just made it entirely a historical fantasy, a more or less colorblind setting, where these things didnât matter at all. Except they didnât, really, because they suddenly inserted a very flimsy in-universe reason for it, and it seemed to come down âracism has been deleted from society over the past couple decades because the King married a black woman,â which was such a weird call for them to make. It removed it from the world of historical fantasy and gave it an explanation and lampshade.
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@Gashlycrumb said in New Concept:
Huh.
I donât see why anything should stop you from removing the bigotry, with no explanation and no lampshade. As âBridgertonâ has done.
I donât think thatâs a perfect example, as Bridgerton actually did try to explain it â largely by gesturing to the Queen. Historians, donât come after me, but I understand that she historically may have been biracial, and they used that to say that she helped break down social barriers. Itâs even briefly referenced here and there: Lady Dansbury comments on it. A quick google of âBridgertonâ and âraceâ will show that there are people even on the liberal side who werenât happy with that, for many of the reasons that weâve actually touched on in this thread.
That said, we also get Kate and Edwina, so Bridgerton is basically perfect and haters can go watch something else.
Nobody wants really accurate historicals, itâs too much reading and you get somebody like me saying, âNo, you donât have a Golden Retriever, they didnât exist until 1908, no, there is no chocolate in medieval Italy and you donât have an oven either, no, your pirate ship is not called âAces Wildâ because we predate poker by over 200 years,â and so on.
Speaking as someone who spent a whole lot of time googling what kind of racing horses there were in the American colonies and what kind of dogs were common on ranches on the frontier, RESPECTFULLY DISAGREE. There is a lot of room for lovely texture in these small details, and I think that on the whole people are more likely to engage in it when it is put before them.
Sorry about the chocolate, though. Bummer.
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@Roz WHY ARE YOU FASTER
Mine had a gif tho.
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Just weird to me people coming in here still like âI canât imagine why anyone would want to play a historically accurate settingâ when thereâs been multiple people in this thread explaining why in detail. Not a single one of us has said anything remotely like we think playing sanitized settings is dumb or wrongfun. Would be hella cool if we could get the same respect back.
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@shit-piss-love said in New Concept:
Not a single one of us has said anything remotely like we think playing sanitized settings is dumb or wrongfun.
âŚdid someone say that historically accurate is dumb/wrong and I missed it?? Been refreshing like a boss today and even did a ctrl+f for âdumbâ and âwrongâ and admittedly the way this software paginates shit sucks but didnât find any except your postâŚ
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@KarmaBum ok but for real there have been a couple posts being real dismissive of any desire to play Historical Accuracy, come on now