Bannings
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@Testament You are right, that there isn’t an external thing that can be done. Could it be healed? Yes and no. I think most (and I can’t speak for all, or anyone really beyond me and my opinion of what would happen) would be happy if the bans were lifted and an honest apology given for the events. An admission of error even without the apology. Only they can provide that, and it is rather obvious they won’t so it is somewhat academic.
Would it heal it? No. But it would cauterise the wounds in the community. There are pretty obvious fundemental differences in opinion and ethics, the fact VulgarKitten is welcome probably means many would not be comfortable being there even ignoring Derp’s track record. So there wouldn’t be some rejoining. But it might take some of the fire and heat out of the division. And much as they will frame that heat as only existing with ‘us’, the fact they are reading the forum and feeling the need to create new lies suggests they are perhaps as wounded as everyone else over this.
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@Testament They apologize for hurting the people they hurt, and after listening to the grievances and getting their opinions on how to improve the relationship, make changes to ensure it doesn’t happen again. The people who have been hurt accept the apology in a spirit of wanting healing over payback, and help enforce the changes that are meant to ensure it doesn’t happen again.
It’s hard on both sides, and if I believed it would happen, I’d still be over on MSB. But I hold out hope that one day they make an overture.
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@GF I respect your outlook and optimism on it. Need far more of you around.
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I can only speak for myself but I don’t need or expect anything. I agree it’s too late to really fix what went down and the only thing we can do is make this place whatever we want it to be going forward. A clear ‘this was bad administration, I personally not a mealy-mouthed passive-voice entity made a mistake’ statement from Ganymede would be nice on a personal level but I can’t see anything making me want to go back to MSB even if I was unbanned at some point.
It would be nice if the mods at MSB now stopped saying things like ‘this vague person was banned over abusive DMs’ in a way that implied maybe I or maybe someone else who never sent any ABUSIVE DMS did that. It sucks to feel like you’re being subtweet lied about in ways you can’t respond to. But they will or they won’t and I do just need to stop reading, or at least stop investing what I read with any feeling, for my own bloodpressure.
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But hurt and divisions will happen again. And again. And again.
Maybe this is the time to focus on being able to handle that in a healthier way than feeling the need to wedge everyone into one box to preserve other people’s comfort, and allow for some separation that maximizes people’s participation and ability to chat with each other while also allowing some space between personalities that don’t get along.
Unity in coming behind and supporting struggling community members will always be a thing imo no matter if there are six boards. We are great at gossip and word of mouth.
But I don’t know. I’m okay learning to give up the convenience of only logging into one place if it means that all places are less pressure cooker.
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I’m gonna stop you right there. Never, ever, ever, ever accuse me of thinking. How dare you?
You should count yourself lucky I was being as restrained as I was. Quite frankly, I suspect you of more than just thinking. I believe I have witnessed you reflecting, considering, and even ruminating.
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@mietze hurt and divisions will happen again and again, sure. tiffs, spats, etc. but i would say /this/, what happened on MSB, doesn’t happen all that often. this situation happened very specifically because of power invested in one person.
but in general, yes, having a few places to login that are less combative is also fine.
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T Tez forked this topic on
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Just noting there was a line on admin accountability that went here.
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@Tez Yeah, I don’t think there’s a real good solution to that. The person who owns the thing, be it a forum or house or business or whatever, has ultimate power and final say in how they want to run and operate it. In the end, they are only beholden to thesmselves and their own whims, altruistic or not.
In those situations, the only real option is voting with your feet or wallet. I don’t shop at Walmart, I don’t go MSB. And since I don’t give MSB my money, my feet are the next best option.
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I think it depends on context. The fracturing of MSB was in response to an injustice, however trivial that injustice might be in the grand scheme of things. That injustice has not been corrected and is still being perpetuated, which seems to me like it must eventually become a problem for the whole community as resentment and distrust fester.
This whole thing is already the result of quite a lot of resentment being allowed to fester. I don’t have a solution for how to navigate accountability when someone fundamentally does not own their shit, but it might be worth reflecting on how this portion of the community helped contribute to our division beyond simply commenting after we were told not to.
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but i would say /this/, what happened on MSB, doesn’t happen all that often.
I dunno, it used to happen fairly often on games. An abuse, or perceived abuse, of power would happen and people would leave and start their own game.
The main difference is that this has happened to us, so it’s naturally more impactful.
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@farfalla Okay.
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Honestly, an apology wouldn’t fix it for me either, at this point - and I wasn’t banned and have only been targeted a tiny bit in the aftermath. I wouldn’t accept it. It’s broken. I don’t care about them being punished, but I’m not interested in reconciliation; there’s nothing the leadership there could do to restore my faith. They are actively embracing abusers of other humans. That’s the choice they’ve made AFTER burning the place down. They can’t fix that.
It’s dead. Bury it or don’t, but it won’t come back. The sooner we stop poking the bear, the sooner it will turn on itself and go away completely.
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Reconciliation is not the only just way to respond to injustice. I don’t owe anyone forgiveness, ever, and I refuse to let that burden be put on me.
as previously stated, good day.
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@IoleRae I’m not saying anyone who feels hurt is required to accept an apology and do the work of fixing the relationship. I’m only saying that if fixing the relationship is the goal, then accepting the apology and doing the work is necessary.
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@IoleRae I’m not saying anyone who feels hurt is required to accept an apology and do the work of fixing the relationship. I’m only saying that if fixing the relationship is the goal, then accepting the apology and doing the work is necessary.
Why is fixing this relationship in specific any sort of goal? Who is it a goal for?
the entity previously known as Sunny
