Secret Society group

Pavel

I’m naming my next character Ogrin P. Vandagyre

somasatori

I would prefer to play a dumb (likely brain damaged) and loud character who rushes headfirst into things, who is obnoxious and meant from a OOC perspective to be taken as a joke, while still having serious moments as it happens in rp. Is there a way for that to be okay?

ah yes, brain damage. what a laugh riot

also, I played on Silent Heaven for all of a couple weeks (much respect for it though), and yet I’m very certain that the vibe of the game isn’t “comedic levity”

Hobbie

@Jumpscare This person definitely has time for a civil conversation about sea lions.

Wizz

@Jumpscare said in Tough Calls:

PEOPHIN
It feels like the only true option I’ve been given is “make a new character”. When I keep asking about being less disruptive, I’m not getting a definitive answer on what exactly that means, so I am confused, admittingly.

I would prefer to play a dumb (likely brain damaged) and loud character who rushes headfirst into things, who is obnoxious and meant from a OOC perspective to be taken as a joke, while still having serious moments as it happens in rp. Is there a way for that to be okay?

alt text

somasatori

If someone told me they got banned for asking for RP, I think my first question would be “what kind of RP were you asking for,” tbh. That said, I do sort of see why the person in @mietze’s example would get banned because that sounds hella disruptive. On one hand I can see the call to ask for RP, have someone agree and then getting cold feet, but it seems like this person was just engaging in a kind of whinging attention seeking based on the description.

My personal peeve these days, as an aside, is having basically zero free time to actually MUSH while actively engaging on a couple MUSH discords to keep up with some friends. I’m feeling this constant pull and still having ideas for characters.

somasatori

@Pavel said in Warma-Sheen:

@hellfrog said in Warma-Sheen:

I just wanted to know what the mindset is that makes someone sock puppet on a new game instead of, idk, trying to rp.

While I obviously can’t speak to anyone’s inner world without having many a chat with them, I can speak to mine back when I did this kind of thing in my very, very, very younger days: I wanted to Be The Best. Probably from a lack of validation at home, I sought reinforcement and attention elsewhere, to that end I wanted to be the richest character, or the combattiest character, or the bestest starfighter pilot or whatever.

For a lot of (hell, probably most) folks, the first RP experience is the character they play and the second is the persona they’ve cultivated. In my youth in the hobby I was a borderline functional alcoholic hipster and would frequently overstate things and blow them out of proportion in a fake-bad kind of way, mostly for attention. Now 13 years sober, I definitely am very embarrassed about this, but it is what it is and I’ve largely tried to make amends where possible.

Anyway, likewise I can’t speak to the actual inner experience here outside of base speculation, but RPing is, for many, part of a larger power fantasy which can easily extend to one’s OOC presentation. Being respected IC can also be a very, let’s say maladaptive, stand-in for feeling respected OOC, which is probably what leads to most of the major crashouts we’ve seen in the hobby.

The hobby is more or less reliant on people being trustworthy actors within the scope of our OOC interactions, indicating that we’re trustworthy RP partners. Breaking that trust - by, for example, draining all of the resources out of your IC organization after being given a position of authority, or by breaking your word to someone in an OOC context or other similar betrayal - could lead to an attempt to manage or spin the situation so as to prevent being seen as untrustworthy. Whether the “significant other had my password” thing is real or not*^*, it’s important to take accountability and responsibility for those negative behaviors and, if unable to do so, identify why without resorting to blame.

I don’t recall Hollywood; I think they were very much after my tenure on TR, but based on this entire thread no one is particularly leaning on anything from TR being very problematic outside of the initial misidentification of Saulot; the focus is on recent behaviors rather than ones from 15 years ago.

^ Inner Soma’s reaction to using “real or not” here: a man in a sheriff 's uniform is reading a newspaper in a diner .

Cobalt

@somasatori In game is good!

Cobalt

@SockMonkey I you too.

@MisterBoring Exactly and sometimes I just flake out because the overwhelming feeling of “you are not wanted” gets to me. I know it’s all in my head, though. But the RSD demon gets hard to fight.

I’m sincerely sorry for anyone in the community who had to deal with me as a teenager/young adult who was in the throes of RSD and didn’t understand and just made it everyone else’s promise.

Jumpscare

@Yam I stumbled on an old chat where I tried to help someone fit in and I grew too exhausted to continue helping. The names have been changed to the names of Neopets I’ve never heard of before today.

PEOPHIN played a character named VANDAGYRE. Here are some of VANDAGYRE’s poses, for reference.

VANDAGYRE coughs into his fist as he glances around, picking his pointer finger into his ear.
VANDAGYRE ,despite this, coughs into his hand once more, his yellow teeth being quite brazingly shown as he glances around awkwardly, “IS JUST MAYBE BUFFER, BECAUSE IS NOT KNOW HOW TO PROPERLY SAY IS THINGS.”
VANDAGYRE stares at the person, his dull eyes staring into the person’s chest as he grins, his jagged, stained teeth showing as he shouts loudly, “ME VANDA. PLACE NOT MAKE SENSE. HEAD HURT.”
VANDAGYRE looks at the person as he stares at them with an empty face, his voice still booming loudly, “IS HAVING BRAIN INJURY. HAVING HARD TIME CONTROLLING IMPULSES. IS EMBRACE INSTEAD OF TRY TO FIGHT IT. REALLY NOT BIG DEAL, VANDA NOT WANT TO MONOLOUGE ABOUT INNER HEAD BULLSHITTERY.”
~VANDAGYRE~ (IS SOMEBODY SAY OILY WRESTLING?)
~VANDAGYRE~ (VANDA LIKE THROW TINY PEOPLE IS MAKE FEEL WHOLE AGAIN.)
~VANDAGYRE~ (VANDA LIKE YOU IS. WILL THROW YOU ANYTIME IS FOR FREE, NO CHAGHE.)

Here’s the OOC conversation. It’s uncut aside from one section I removed for brevity and privacy, where PEOPHIN asked about the behavior of another banned player.

PEOPHIN
Hey, sorry to message-- I’ll just make this as short as I can because I don’t want to bother to much (about silent heaven).

I don’t know if it was you or someone else, but I was playing as a character that was portrayed as dumb and loud, I then had a staff reach out to me saying that I was being to ditruptive. When I tried questioning as to how my character was being disruptive in a manner that was negatively impacting other players, I didn’t recieve an answer aside from “people complained”.

I don’t see what I did being against the rules anywhere, and I didn’t recieve any explanation when I tried to probe as to exactly why. I did things like talk in all caps and generally be big and dumb with his statements, but I feel it was at least a little unfair that I was literally told to stop without being given any additional information when I tried asking.

Sorry to bother. I can give more information if you want. If you don’t want to respond that is compeltely fine and I understand. It just overall does not sit right in my tummy and I feel I had a good, humerous character going, and any possible development I could have had was completely wiped away without a thought. (I don’t normally like talking about these things, I usually just move on if it ever happens, but it really didn’t sit right with me. Again, sorry to bother.)

JUMPSCARE
Hi there!

I’ve looked into this.

Your behavior as VANDAGYRE was described as trolling, over the top, and especially hard to RP with, as well as disruptive over the winds.

When asked to tone it down or refine the character, you responded with, “If what I’m not doing right now is not okay I’d prefer to just make a new character if that’s alright. His whole gimmick is to be loud and disruptive.”

This preference was honored. VANDAGYRE was stored, and you were notified that you were allowed to create a new character.

PEOPHIN
Can you tell me how it was supposed to be trolling or hard to rp with?

I tried asking about it, because the only thing I agree with was that is the over the top (intentionally).

and just to be clear, I was specifically only told to “be less distruptive”, and I didn’t receive any explanation as to what that meant. When he was talking over the winds, he was genuinally expressing interest in something he heard, and complimenting somebody. Maybe I’m misunderstanding what is meant by disruptive, because at least over the winds, he was just talking how he talks (I did use him in all caps, but again that is intentional, and if that was the issue of using it specifically in winds, it wasn’t mentioned to me at all specifically).

I had numerous interactions that felt pretty filled out-- I took his over-the-top nature and bounced off of other characters, etc.

The way I see it-- the character isn’t troll, but he is meant to be comedic and not taken seriously. I’m just confused, because it seems like playing a character that is meant to not be taken seriously isn’t allowed-- I made strides to make sure that he wasnt disruptive when talking to people, he didn’t just blab on in the winds, etc. I feel like there’s a big misrepresentation of his actions and I’d appreciate it if it were adressed, if possible. This whole situation, as a new player to the game, just feels like its meant to make me want to leave because it feels like I was bullied out of what could be a good and fun character concept.

JUMPSCARE
I can’t tell you how; I’m just relaying how players who played with your character felt. Hopefully you’ll be able to reflect on that. You’ve shown here that you understand the ways that you were disruptive and over the top.

Ultimately, that iteration of VANDAGYRE was not a good fit for Silent Heaven.

PEOPHIN
It feels, very unfair though, considering I put effort in and have tried telling you I think that a lot of those things (not all) are misunderstandings. Are there not characters in Silent Heaven that are humerous and made to be jokes but took time for people to get used to? The way I see it, people saw a humerous character that was over the top, immedietly thought it was a troll, and complained. It feels unfair that staff reached out to me instead of probing further or to find solutions, it really just feels like people are trying to chase away a new player here.

I’m sure there are over the top or disruptive characters that exist, so I am confused why this specifically is not being allowed. And for people that felt that is was trolling, I’d like to itterate that I actually put noticeable effort into scenes and his mannerisms-- I had details that most trolls would not, etc.

JUMPSCARE
There are not over-the-top or disruptive characters.

You’ve been given multiple options. But it feels like you’re rejecting all of them. What do you specifically want?

PEOPHIN
It feels like the only true option I’ve been given is “make a new character”. When I keep asking about being less disruptive, I’m not getting a definitive answer on what exactly that means, so I am confused, admittingly.

I would prefer to play a dumb (likely brain damaged) and loud character who rushes headfirst into things, who is obnoxious and meant from a OOC perspective to be taken as a joke, while still having serious moments as it happens in rp. Is there a way for that to be okay?

There’s things I can obviously change like, conveying loudness in ways that isnt talking in all caps, not using all caps over winds, etc. But At least for the main parts (being obnoxious, loud, etc), I’d just like to know if playing a character like that is possible.

JUMPSCARE
The option to refine VANDAGYRE was a true option also! Hence why I said “that iteration of VANDAGYRE” was not a good fit for Silent Heaven.

I try to say exactly what I mean so that there’s no confusion from implied meanings. Such as the above.

Your suggestions are all fine; you simply have to remember that what makes a character like that good is if you’re playing it in a way that’s fun for the other players and not frustrating. It means putting a lot more emphasis in writing for the other players than for yourself.

At this point, I’d suggest remaking with a character who’s a little more down-to-earth. More emphasis on prose instead of trolly emotes. Then you can revisit VANDAGYRE after you’ve played a character and have a good feel for the vibes here.

PEOPHIN
I’m glad you’re saying that part about the options now, but at least at the time, I basically had my character boxed and when I tried talking out solutions, I couldn’t @gm, and the person that moved me left my room, so any potential to change things there and make it simple felt like it just… got halted.

I still want to make a character with those traits that I listed, is that possible? What I don’t understand about the emote comment, is that he had plenty of times where he was simply doing things like putting his hand on someone to facilitate a greeting, would make facial expressions to show how he feels, etc, which I feel are not trolly emotes at all and showed the character is fine.

And for a BIG example to just be clear of why I think VANDAGYRE was an example of writing for other characters despite his qualities: there was a scene where someone asked about his yelling, and instead of going into a long monolouge about his upbringing, I decided to make it fit his character more by him literally saying he dosen’t want sit there and blab to people in a monolouge, which I felt really made it clear that the focus was still about making a good story, not to just have a silly gimmick character and let it be just that.

I don’t know if you read most of my emotes, but I included things that made it clear he was defintely not trolly, such as him reacting when someone praised him (in detail), how he processes numerous people, how he deals with being told things, etc.

And also, sorry to draw this out so much. I just want to know if with those qualities I listed, making a character like that is possible. I am like, 90% sure the traits I listed would actually be fun to interact with, given that most characters are by nature serious, and having a character to rely on that is honest, yet not all mentally there can make for a good concept to latch to.

I’d like to add that normally I play my cutesey, happy characters, but I’d like to make this work if possible

JUMPSCARE
I appreciate you writing all of that out.

At this time, you may create a down-to-earth character. If you don’t want to, you don’t have to.

I need to attend to other players now. Thank you.

PEOPHIN
Damn, that hurts. I wish you would just let me try to make it work and show you it can be an overall benefit, but alright.

This feels, really shitty, especially considering I’m a new player, but I understand you got other people to deal with, I just hope you can return to this when you have time.

PEOPHIN, 2 days later
Hey, if it’s not to much to ask, could you have someone take my character out of the UFO room or whatever it’s called? I’d like to run with it and just fix some of the things we talked about if that’s alright, please

JUMPSCARE
Hi there! Give me a bit and I’ll be able to do that.

PEOPHIN
Thank you very much , also sorry to bother so much about it.
I think people will like it and it’ll be fun, they’ve just gotta give it a chance before judging

And just to be clear-- I guess I’d be fine making a different character, but I really want to make like a goofy, funny one that can get a laugh out of myself and people. I see that idea with VANDAGYRE, however I don’t really know a lot about the disquise mechanic, but I’m thinking I could just make a character with that and have them do wacky stuff too, again I’m just not sure because I’m new and reading HELP only helps me so much.

My only issue, is I don’t want to run VANDAGYRE, then get admin bonked and told to change without someone actually hearing me out and having a discussion. I don’t like having opinions stuffed down my throat and being forced or told to change something that I think is unfair without a proper, full discussion.

JUMPSCARE
I’m always amenable to hearing people out. It doesn’t always mean that I’ll accept it, because my interests are solely in line with protecting the community from grief.

I will always choose to run a smaller game with minimized grief than a larger one with uncontrolled grief. Please keep that in mind as you return to the game.

VANDAGYRE is back in his private room. Please rewrite his backstory, and also tone down his goofiness. Focus on roleplaying and integrating into the world instead of pulling people out of it with the tonal shift of VANDAGYRE’s previous appearance.

PEOPHIN
Right-- would it be okay if you could tell me what is wrong with running a goofy character in a serious setting? I’m sure that it’s possible to integrate into the world even with a goofy character as long as it’s done properly, is that not okay here? I have heard characters referencing other people that are similar to VANDAGYRE in acting, so I’m struggling to see the problem if it’s done right.

Because I can assure you, I think it is quite easy to run a character that is meant to be goofy, but still have serious, realistic actions with that character that come from their worldview and experiences. I can, quite easily run a goofy character that is not griefing and still focuses on roleplaying and integrating into the world, is that not okay?

I had good interactions with a character named OGRIN, if you really think that the type of character I’m trying to run is problemematic you could just ask them, because I think we had some actual good roleplay that showed VANDAGYRE can integrate into roleplay just fine despite his goofy, not-so-there nature.

JUMPSCARE
OGRIN was one of the ones who expressed that VANDAGYRE needed a nudge in the right direction.

It’s very possible that Silent Heaven just isn’t the right game for you, and there’ll be another game that’ll better cater to the style of RP you enjoy.

PEOPHIN
I agree with that sentiment, he needs a change in the right direction. But you are, basically telling me that running a goofy character is not allowed, and I’m curious as to why.

I’m fine with changing parts of him-- like making it more refined. After all, it was my first day there so obviously there’s going to be some things to work out, like some of the things I mentioned that we mutually agreed should be changed.

What is wrong with running a goofy character in this setting if done properly? I noticed other characters referencing a name of someone similar to my own goofy character to compare, so surely there are some that are considered goofy already. Instead of refining the goofiness to make it work, why are you trying to get me to change it completely?

Is the idea of a mentally deranged, dumb, snappy, and happy character something that isn’t generally allowed here, even if done correctly?

If that’s not what you see with him right now that’s fine, but that is the intent, of course the first time implementing it is gonna need polishing

JUMPSCARE
I’m sorry. I feel like this conversation is taking up yet more of my time with no progress forward. I’ve given you more than enough guidance, and I’ve tried in many ways to convey that that’s not a good character concept for a first character. I’m no longer continuing with this back-and-forth.

At this point, I’m storing VANDAGYRE again and disinviting you from Silent Heaven.

somasatori

Me thinking “it’s been a couple weeks, I wonder how Empire is doing, I’ll check on that BMD thread”:
a man in a suit is carrying a stack of pizza boxes and smiling

T	Tez
P	Pavel
R	ririsaru
M	MisterBoring
J	Jenn
C	catzilla
C	Cobalt
C	chilling
S	somasatori
S	sonata
L	Laurel
K	KQ
U	untitled
B	bored
B	Belle
M	mudcirclejerk
M	Mercutio
N	Narrator
R	Rucket
T	Templari

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