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MisterBoring

@Faraday Here’s what I don’t like when I say pacifists shouldn’t join CvC factions, using the same two characters @Jumpscare made up:

MH: I’ve secured the Staff of Power for our faction. We must be prepared to defend it, because the Winter Hills Clan will kill to claim it for themselves. The war will be long, we must be prepared to defend the Staff with our lives, and unfortunately, we will have to take theirs, as they are willing to give their lives to take it.

PP: Yeah, I joined this faction because I like the color scheme of the faction on my PB. I wasn’t aware this was a CvC faction and have no intent in helping anything ICly.

MH: a man with long hair and a beard is holding a glass with the word huh on it

Jumpscare

@Faraday said in Non-toxic PvP:

That’s assuming the flak MH is getting is IC and not OOC. Like it’s fine for PP to ICly grumble about getting beaten up at the danger pit, but they can’t OOCly go around trashing MH’s player for playing in-theme.

In this scenario, PP isn’t grumbling, PP is purposefully taking a loss at the danger pit in order to be able to bring it up IC whenever MH says anything. Not only was the conflict void of excitement, but PP now uses it as ammunition to ICly derail anything MH tries to talk about afterwards.

@howyadoin said in Non-toxic PvP:

Being threatening over petty slights to brand newbies who haven’t even joined a faction yet also happens and is treated IC and all part of the story and we work through it.

Please DM me with what this is about. Conflict should be fun for everyone involved. I’ll look into it.

Juniper

Yeah, I don’t think this is about the low xp cafe worker who is in the correct faction.

Jumpscare

For clarification, here’s a re-enactment of the Problematic Pacifist. Assume that the Problematic Pacifist has much higher stats than the MacGuffin Holder, making it so the MacGuffin Holder can’t get around the Problematic Pacifist without engaging in combat.

MacGuffin Holder: It’s time for me to bring the MacGuffin to the danger pit.

Problematic Pacifist: That’s a bad idea. You should take it to the safety pit where my faction wants it to be.

MH: I’ve been vocal about my plans to do this for the past week.

PP: And my protests have gone ignored.

MH: If you have a problem with it, meet me at the danger pit and try to take it from me.

PP: I’ll meet you there, but I won’t fight you.

MH: I’m not giving it up without a fight.

PP: Too late, I’m already here and standing in your way.

MH: Move.

PP: No.

MH: sighs, attacks

PP: Now you can all see how much of a bloodthirsty villain MH is!

MH: (Having to fight a rival who isn’t fighting back just so you can use it against my character isn’t fun.)

PP: (I’m sorry but I’m just playing my character.)

MH: keeps going just to get this plot point resolved

PP: gets KOed, recovers later

MH: The deed is done. The MacGuffin has exploded.

PP: Sure, you feel proud now, but how many innocent people who weren’t fighting back did you enjoy stabbing at the danger pit?

MH: goes to Storytellers to get this behavior to stop

In this way, the Problematic Pacifist is able to weaponize their pacifism against their rivals and generally bring the mood of the game down by holding those forced situations against the person who attacked them.

MisterBoring

@Faraday said in Non-toxic PvP:

Pacifists literally do exist, and a pacifist trapped in a high-conflict faction could be an interesting character concept if done well.

There’s a difference between being an IC pacifist and being an OOC pacifist that prefers everyone be pacifist, which I think is the version @Juniper was commenting about.

Kestrel

I don’t know the situation @Jumpscare was alluding to, but I immediately assumed — along, I think, with @Juniper — that the issue being described was actually a player who wrongfuns other people for engaging in the established conflict theme, rather than the other way around.

I’ve dealt with this type of player and it’s incredibly frustrating to have someone treat you like you’re a bad mean person OOCly for, say, trying to rob people while being a member of the Thieves’ Guild, lurking in a shifty alley no one is forced to go to. Especially when you’re being compared to other members of the Thieves’ Guild who don’t steal because stealing is wrong, and they just joined to vibe with their friends, but now everyone is treating them like established representatives of the Thieves’ Guild and saying no one is forcing you to be the kind who steals, that’s just you being a jerk. Expecting people to uphold the theme they signed up for isn’t wrongfun, IMO.

I thought @Jumpscare’s suggestions were pretty useful and I ended up making some notes: have clear expectations for how factions engage, and I think I might even write up an OOC newbie guide on “which faction should you join” that spells stuff out like, if you don’t like combat then Engineers or Cooks’ Guild is a good fit, and if you aren’t comfortable with high risk then don’t join the Militia.

Juniper

Can you please clarify this and maybe give it an example? It doesn’t seem inherently toxic to either play a non-combat character in a conflict org or to refuse to give Mr. Big Fighty their ego ups in beating on a weaker character. I can actually think of several ways this would be intriguing.

In good non-toxic PvP environments, the game is designed with a lot of built in conflict invitation flags so players can signal to other players what they want. The health of the environment absolutely depends on players using these flags accurately.

Someone who joins a high-conflict faction is signalling that they want to participate in that conflict and should not do that if they can’t OOCly handle it. Pacifists don’t just sit out, they tend to belittle everyone participating and take a revisionist approach to the faction’s raison d’être. Just hope they weren’t given a high value macguffin to protect, they might just hand it over because fighting is wrong.

If your game has an area called Murder Alley and it’s well known that going there signals that you are interested in being mugged… sometimes pacifists will wander up and down and snap OOCly at anyone who steps in front of them, and eventually it stops being a reliable signal to find RP.

It’s absolutely infuriating for everybody trying to participate in the game’s design as intended. It would be SO easy for the pacifist to join the kittens and hugs faction and avoid Murder Alley.

Not to mention that standing there condemning violence while someone punches you in the face is something only video game characters can do. Please… don’t.

Aria

@Rucket said in Real life happy:

@Rucket said in Real life happy:

I, uh, have a crazy job interview on Monday. I really can’t believe it but going to prep this weekend and hope Monday goes well!

Quoting my own post to say I had a 2nd one on Thursday and hope to hear something early next week about Interview #3.

patrick star from spongebob squarepants is holding a green flag and a yellow finger

Rucket

@Wikibara said in Real life happy:

@Rucket
Sending positive vibes.

Thank you!

Rucket

Ima big care bear, I wanna PvE.

If anything has to be PvP, I’d rather it be fun IC drama like, “Oh my gods can you believe Davion wore white after Labor Day” or something dumb like that. I would rather focus on making my character go through their own issues/face their own demons than have to worry PvP.

T	Tez
P	Pavel
L	Lain Iwakura
R	ririsaru
M	MisterBoring
J	Jenn
C	catzilla
C	Cobalt
C	chilling
S	somasatori
S	sonata
L	Laurel
K	KQ
U	untitled
B	bored
B	Belle
M	mudcirclejerk
M	Mercutio
N	Narrator
R	Rucket

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