Don’t forget we moved!
https://brandmu.day/
Bannings
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I’m so glad there is a space for people to process their feelings, not only as individuals but together. We may “just” be an online community and some of the meeting places may “just” be a message board but it is a real community, and when stuff breaks down it can really hurt.
I don’t want anyone to misconstrue my quietness to mean I don’t care. I do, very much. It’s been hard to see my name invoked in things that are incorrect to me (though I can see why it was done so), or to back up things by people who were hurtful to me personally. But sometimes that’s what happens when people are arguing or trying to cope with what they need to cope with and I’m not angry about it.
I’m not a saint, or some great person and it makes me uncomfortable. I don’t think me being present during the blow up would have changed anything, I don’t and never did have that much power. For that same reason I don’t think anyone else could influence the decisions that have been made either, except for the people that are right now making them. I thought that stepping down would relieve stress (and it did), and that it would be enough (it wasn’t), because the minute I stupidly engaged in a discussion that I should have known how it would turn out, a lot of that hurt came right back to the surface and for my part in that I’m very sorry, it’s hard to not feel like that didn’t instigate something that shouldn’t have been. I thought I was getting to be over it, but I’m not.
It’s hard to lose access to a place that you once felt like you had a part in. Or to feel less welcome and safe. Regardless of justification but especially when it doesn’t feel like it was and it was abrupt. It’s hard to let go of that and stop looking/reading/whatever. It may not even be appropriate for some people, and that’s of course a decision that has to be made for yourself. I wish I could say something that would help, but I also know I can’t. There’s nothing to say. It did not happen for me on the boards this time, but I have experienced it elsewhere and it was bewildering and angering and made me feel more grief that I thought I should.
To say this has been a dark time for me would be an understatement. Yes, 90 percent of it is factors other than what happened, but what happened triggered some pretty serious things that I still have to be very careful about (as I discovered last night too). I guess I’m not over that either.
There have been several times in the history of “the community” where different boards have existed (and yes even rivalries–ask the dinosaurs, this isn’t the first time this has happened. I think it’s easier now to find/hang on to the friends that you want, and refind others as time goes on. I’ve had friends in this hobby that were close, and then a falling out ended things for years, and then we reconnected stronger than ever. And other relationships with folks that just…didn’t ever re-engage–and that’s okay too. Real life, right? It doesn’t make it less painful in the moment.
I guess what I’m trying to say is that I do really love you guys. I wish things had happened differently. I wish I’d been more capable, or it had been a better moment for a whole bunch of people. That things didn’t bubble up exactly the way that they did, because while I can see why people say it’d been building up for awhile, I don’t think it was the best for anyone how it happened. I wish that we all didn’t have so much other shit in our lives that sometimes makes stuff in THIS community feel like the last straw. I think whatever place you land at, and are able to settle into community is good. And yes, even if it’s both. Sometimes having an alternative that you feel more comfortable on and that becoming the new main (or the old main)–that’s a good thing. There doesn’t even have to be a comparison. I like what’s building here. I hope with more hands on deck both here and at MSB people will be able to build what they want. Hats off to the team here for being able to take something like this on board when a lot of the people are grieving at least a little. Sometimes that’s taking on some hard stuff that you don’t notice until later, but I think you are amazing.
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@mietze Whatever is or was happening in your life at the time when this all went down was your priority.
These forums, all this text? It is not and never will be worth the emotional health of anyone. You had your own battles to wage, and mush forums do not take top billing.
If there is anyone who can’t understand it, well…needless to say, take care of you and your loved ones. That runs first. All this? It means far less.
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@mietze Okay but are you sure you’re not a saint?
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@mietze I don’t know you well at all, but I do know you are friends with some of my most favorite people who generally have good taste in the people they associate with. I think in the heat of the moment, there was a lot of hurt and confusion and probably temporary insanity, but never once did anyone blame you or thought you could fix things … honestly, most of us were just super angry that you were being used as an excuse for the bad behavior that was going on, because you didn’t deserve that.
I don’t really know what else to say except that I like this little community we’ve built and a lot of good has come out of it already.
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Now the community seems fractured. Hopefully it is a problem that will fix itself.
Honestly, I don’t see communities fracturing as a problem that needs fixing. Sure, the way it happens is a bag of suck wrapped in crap coated in a thin layer of “I can’t believe it’s not irony.” But it’s like cell division. We go off and do our thing, they go off and do theirs, and the community grows from it.
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Honestly, I don’t see communities fracturing as a problem that needs fixing. Sure, the way it happens is a bag of suck wrapped in crap coated in a thin layer of “I can’t believe it’s not irony.” But it’s like cell division. We go off and do our thing, they go off and do theirs, and the community grows from it.
I think it depends on context. The fracturing of MSB was in response to an injustice, however trivial that injustice might be in the grand scheme of things. That injustice has not been corrected and is still being perpetuated, which seems to me like it must eventually become a problem for the whole community as resentment and distrust fester.
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Honestly, I don’t see communities fracturing as a problem that needs fixing. Sure, the way it happens is a bag of suck wrapped in crap coated in a thin layer of “I can’t believe it’s not irony.” But it’s like cell division. We go off and do our thing, they go off and do theirs, and the community grows from it.
I think it depends on context. The fracturing of MSB was in response to an injustice, however trivial that injustice might be in the grand scheme of things. That injustice has not been corrected and is still being perpetuated, which seems to me like it must eventually become a problem for the whole community as resentment and distrust fester.
Sure, maybe. But we ain’t gonna fix it, that has to be on them to want to fix. And right now they don’t want to, or can’t, or whatever. Better to focus on ourselves and doing right by our slice of the community, in my view.
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I think it depends on context. The fracturing of MSB was in response to an injustice, however trivial that injustice might be in the grand scheme of things. That injustice has not been corrected and is still being perpetuated, which seems to me like it must eventually become a problem for the whole community as resentment and distrust fester.
The unfortunate thing about ‘responding to an injustice’ is the over-correction. There is already an us-versus-them mentality where just who ‘us’ and ‘them’ are isn’t always clear.
But it’s divisive, and easily exploited. Some folks are banned from one forum; some feel unwelcome in the other. Some are in the in-crowd on one, some are not.
Now, I’m a relic of a different era so hopefully I’m wrong. But I don’t have to like it.
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Honestly, I don’t see communities fracturing as a problem that needs fixing. Sure, the way it happens is a bag of suck wrapped in crap coated in a thin layer of “I can’t believe it’s not irony.” But it’s like cell division. We go off and do our thing, they go off and do theirs, and the community grows from it.
I think it depends on context. The fracturing of MSB was in response to an injustice, however trivial that injustice might be in the grand scheme of things. That injustice has not been corrected and is still being perpetuated, which seems to me like it must eventually become a problem for the whole community as resentment and distrust fester.
In my opinion, I think these are things that have always existed in the mush community. Resentment and distrust has always been thing. Distrust of staff, resentment of other players getting X thing or perceived preference, etc etc, the list goes on. While I’d agree that just because it’s existed doesn’t mean you have to accept it. But there has to be a willingness to accept that I doubt these aspects or facets of the community are ever going to truly go away.
Realistically, how would that injustice be resolved? I feel the damage has already been done. Even if MSB is wiped clean, it’s staff admonished and shunned, you can’t exactly punish people for how they run a forum. You can’t fire them or call the cops on them. Beyond that, would anyone here truly wish to go back to it after everything that has already occurred? Maybe, but I feel the number would be low as we’ve already heard people state that they wouldn’t.
There has always been schisms within the muverse. A game is run poorly, a number of disenfranchised players will go make their own game in an attempt to ‘do better’ than the original. There will always be this person who ‘hates this staffer’ and this person will defend them to their dying breath. These are things we’ve all seen countless times. If anything, this suggests that we’re doing what we’ve always done, even if that means what we’ve always done isn’t always good. I think the only way to correct that behavior is that people have to change. And people, well, humans are gonna human, for better or worse.
I don't know what I'm doing. Poke at Seven Nations sevennations.aresmush.com port 2021
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some feel unwelcome in the other.
i will say about this: it’s very clear that there are some people that will feel ‘unwelcome’ wherever people actually have a voice to call them out. like, people felt ‘unsafe’ and ‘bullied’ by my very reasonable posts on the other forum.
of course those same people are going to feel unwelcome literally everywhere my name is attached. because the issue isn’t what we say or do; it’s the judgement that they’ve already attached to us.
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I get the feeling a lot of y’all think I believe injustice is corrected via punishment or winning a dominance struggle.
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@Testament You are right, that there isn’t an external thing that can be done. Could it be healed? Yes and no. I think most (and I can’t speak for all, or anyone really beyond me and my opinion of what would happen) would be happy if the bans were lifted and an honest apology given for the events. An admission of error even without the apology. Only they can provide that, and it is rather obvious they won’t so it is somewhat academic.
Would it heal it? No. But it would cauterise the wounds in the community. There are pretty obvious fundemental differences in opinion and ethics, the fact VulgarKitten is welcome probably means many would not be comfortable being there even ignoring Derp’s track record. So there wouldn’t be some rejoining. But it might take some of the fire and heat out of the division. And much as they will frame that heat as only existing with ‘us’, the fact they are reading the forum and feeling the need to create new lies suggests they are perhaps as wounded as everyone else over this.
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@Testament They apologize for hurting the people they hurt, and after listening to the grievances and getting their opinions on how to improve the relationship, make changes to ensure it doesn’t happen again. The people who have been hurt accept the apology in a spirit of wanting healing over payback, and help enforce the changes that are meant to ensure it doesn’t happen again.
It’s hard on both sides, and if I believed it would happen, I’d still be over on MSB. But I hold out hope that one day they make an overture.
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@GF I respect your outlook and optimism on it. Need far more of you around.
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I can only speak for myself but I don’t need or expect anything. I agree it’s too late to really fix what went down and the only thing we can do is make this place whatever we want it to be going forward. A clear ‘this was bad administration, I personally not a mealy-mouthed passive-voice entity made a mistake’ statement from Ganymede would be nice on a personal level but I can’t see anything making me want to go back to MSB even if I was unbanned at some point.
It would be nice if the mods at MSB now stopped saying things like ‘this vague person was banned over abusive DMs’ in a way that implied maybe I or maybe someone else who never sent any ABUSIVE DMS did that. It sucks to feel like you’re being subtweet lied about in ways you can’t respond to. But they will or they won’t and I do just need to stop reading, or at least stop investing what I read with any feeling, for my own bloodpressure.
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But hurt and divisions will happen again. And again. And again.
Maybe this is the time to focus on being able to handle that in a healthier way than feeling the need to wedge everyone into one box to preserve other people’s comfort, and allow for some separation that maximizes people’s participation and ability to chat with each other while also allowing some space between personalities that don’t get along.
Unity in coming behind and supporting struggling community members will always be a thing imo no matter if there are six boards. We are great at gossip and word of mouth.
But I don’t know. I’m okay learning to give up the convenience of only logging into one place if it means that all places are less pressure cooker.
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I’m gonna stop you right there. Never, ever, ever, ever accuse me of thinking. How dare you?
You should count yourself lucky I was being as restrained as I was. Quite frankly, I suspect you of more than just thinking. I believe I have witnessed you reflecting, considering, and even ruminating.
