Suspected Superhero Creeping Or Something

[Lithium]

@Meg said in DWOPP-spotting:

After I posted this, people pointed out the Jean/Warren scene as the primary example of this behavior, and I admit, I had skimmed over that and hadn’t really read it while focusing on other things. That is my bad, and that scene does show some bad behavior. I do wish we had more examples like that, especially with Lithium claiming that it was asked for by Jean.

(Which, I do not believe. I don’t believe someone speaking for someone else like that, because it could have just as easily been something like Lithium bugging OOCly about shipping their characters and Jean just finally going ‘well, flirt more IC! We’ll see how it goes!’ to let them down easy.)

There is a posted Log of the Scene in which Jean ICly asks Warren if they can be more flirty. It was prior to the scene in which I am being a supposed creep.

Just because I have had some incidents in the past that have not been favorable does not mean I have not learned, and changed, I would hope that nobody here still plays exactly the same they did 30 years ago, 20, 10, or even 5 or 1.

We grow, we change, I see lots of talk about people getting opportunities to change, and yet, nobody wants to believe that I cannot have made sure things were cool OOCly with people before starting up any sort of romantic RP, or how I must have been gaslighting people when I try to make sure everyone is comfortable in RP all the time.

That’s really hard.

Really hard.

I’ve been playing still for years and yet, all it takes is one person to get butthurt and make crazy accusations that are unsupported by reality and…

Yeah.

Thank you too the few people who wanted actual proof before nailing me to the cross, and thank you to the few who did step up about how I am not the Charles Manson of the MU*'ing community.

[Pavel]

I think the takeaway here is that I should always use Charles Manson in my analogies whenever I want to actually say Hitler. It seems to catch on.

[Meg]

@Lithium look, I’m not gonna go digging through RP for a game I don’t play. Sorry. I said what I said and I stand by it. The whole sum of what I said was that there was some bad behavior (pushy flirting) in the scene and that I didn’t necessarily believe anyone who speaks for someone else. Because the example that I listed as why /has happened/. Because communication between RPers is not always the clearest and a lot of people avoid direct confrontation.

I do, however, believe it now that Jean-player has spoken up. And again, I say I wish that there were more examples of your supposed bad behavior, because if the flirting was talked about OOC and wanted, well, that definitely puts a different spin on it. So, I’d be curious for receipts on your bad behavior on this game, versus just bad behavior in the past.

I do appreciate that you came with receipts of Runescryer being a big ol’ fucking jerk to you, tho. A+. That guy immediately went crying to the forum that he is an admin on while trying to get you kicked off a game after IC/OOC conflict. Not a great look.

[Kestrel]

@Lithium said in DWOPP-spotting:

Just because I have had some incidents in the past that have not been favorable does not mean I have not learned, and changed, I would hope that nobody here still plays exactly the same they did 30 years ago, 20, 10, or even 5 or 1.
We grow, we change, I see lots of talk about people getting opportunities to change, and yet, nobody wants to believe that I cannot have made sure things were cool OOCly with people before starting up any sort of romantic RP, or how I must have been gaslighting people

I’ve been playing still for years and yet, all it takes is one person to get butthurt and make crazy accusations that are unsupported by reality and…

[Pavel]

@Lithium said in DWOPP-spotting:

We grow, we change

We do, but we also make judgements based on what we know about people. If people were to judge me as I am now based on what I used to be like, with my past as their only frame of reference, they wouldn’t be wrong for making such a judgement.

Yes, fresh evidence should change minds, but that evidence is required before the mind-changing can happen. One should aspire to change for themselves and be marginally less concerned with how others perceive them. If the change is true, it’ll eventually be noticed and alter those perceptions. Eventually.

It’s hard, absolutely, but warranted.

[Third Eye]

@Pavel said in DWOPP-spotting:

I think the takeaway here is that I should always use Charles Manson in my analogies whenever I want to actually say Hitler. It seems to catch on.

It’s an alternative to invoking Godwin that appeals to me greatly and I shall adopt it in my own flaming work.

[Pavel]

@Third-Eye said in DWOPP-spotting:

@Pavel said in DWOPP-spotting:

I think the takeaway here is that I should always use Charles Manson in my analogies whenever I want to actually say Hitler. It seems to catch on.

It’s an alternative to invoking Godwin that appeals to me greatly and I shall adopt it in my own flaming work.

I was also going to go with the Zodiac Killer, but I try not to talk about political figures.

[Coin]

@Third-Eye said in DWOPP-spotting:

@Pavel said in DWOPP-spotting:

I think the takeaway here is that I should always use Charles Manson in my analogies whenever I want to actually say Hitler. It seems to catch on.

It’s an alternative to invoking Godwin that appeals to me greatly and I shall adopt it in my own flaming work.

You’re just going to end up creating Pavel’s Corollary.

[RightMeow]

Here’s my takeaway – do with it as you will. As a person that sees these thread titles and immediately wants to throw up - I’m glad it’s not him.

Since every time I see that my heart stops and I worry I’m playing with him again or yet again, he’s stirring up some drama for my char I’m not going to be aware of until I trip over it.

So, I’m glad it’s not him, but could we maybe perhaps slide to another thread about Lithium or the Sip The Tea thread or something and leave this for the actual DWOPP spotting when/if it happens?

If not, that’s okay too. It’s just my slight could we please, but I’m not going to hate anyone if the answer is no. I just was following this conversation for a specific reason that was proven inaccurate.

[Pavel]

@Coin said in DWOPP-spotting:

@Third-Eye said in DWOPP-spotting:

@Pavel said in DWOPP-spotting:

I think the takeaway here is that I should always use Charles Manson in my analogies whenever I want to actually say Hitler. It seems to catch on.

It’s an alternative to invoking Godwin that appeals to me greatly and I shall adopt it in my own flaming work.

You’re just going to end up creating Pavel’s Corollary.

You lot are going to end up creating Pavel’s Coronary if this type of chatter keeps up.

[Pavel]

@RightMeow said in DWOPP-spotting:

If not, that’s okay too. It’s just my slight could we please, but I’m not going to hate anyone if the answer is no. I just was following this conversation for a specific reason that was proven inaccurate.

I’d be up for renaming the thread, and leaving DWOPP talk for when/if they pop up again.

ETA: Title edited.

[GF]

@Lithium said in DWOPP-spotting:

all it takes is one person to

Gonna stop you right there: it ain’t just one person.

If this is all some huge mistake that’s somehow managed to rope in half a dozen people I personally know of, then I am genuinely sorry for the bad luck that brought it on you, but under the circumstances I am inclined to believe that while you may have felt you were doing your best, your approach still needs work.

[Tez]

@GF said in Suspected Superhero Creeping Or Something:

@Lithium said in DWOPP-spotting:

all it takes is one person to

Gonna stop you right there: it ain’t just one person.

If this is all some huge mistake that’s somehow managed to rope in half a dozen people I personally know of, then I am genuinely sorry for the bad luck that brought it on you, but under the circumstances I am inclined to believe that while you may have felt you were doing your best, your approach still needs work.

That’s pretty fair. You’ve alluded to hearing things from others, and I believe you, and that they were unnerved! BUT. We’ve also had people in this thread talk about how things were fine right up until the SUS was thrown. Something that is otherwise innocuous – or at least, not THAT GUY – is gonna seem, feel, hit a lot worse under that cloud.

That said, I think you’re probably right that the approach still needs work. I mean, who among us does not have work to do, for one, and for two, that log with Jean looked awk before the context.

We haven’t had much context about what happened with Betsy, and tbh, I doubt we will. But from what we HAVE seen – Jean and Warren, Warren and Tony – I think Kestrel’s bullet points hit best for me:

@Kestrel said in Suspected Superhero Creeping Or Something:

1. Lithium is not DWOPP
2. Runescryer is kind of a jerk
3. Lithium is kind of a creep

[Meg]

@GF said in Suspected Superhero Creeping Or Something:

@Lithium said in DWOPP-spotting:

all it takes is one person to

Gonna stop you right there: it ain’t just one person.

If this is all some huge mistake that’s somehow managed to rope in half a dozen people I personally know of, then I am genuinely sorry for the bad luck that brought it on you, but under the circumstances I am inclined to believe that while you may have felt you were doing your best, your approach still needs work.

Can we hear some examples of what they were doing? I believe you that half a dozen people were uncomfortable with Lithium, but I really wish people would step forward with some concrete examples so us bystanders could really judge these people we don’t play with on this game we don’t play on.

Especially with Jean-player shooting down the one logged example that was offered up as her being totally fine with the RP.

[Pavel]

Once again, folks,

@Lithium said in Suspected Superhero Creeping Or Something:

@Runescryer

I.
Am.
Not.
A.
HIM.

[Meg]

@Pavel said in Suspected Superhero Creeping Or Something:

Once again, folks,

@Lithium said in Suspected Superhero Creeping Or Something:

@Runescryer

I.
Am.
Not.
A.
HIM.

sorry, i caught one use and changed it and didn’t catch the other. Thank you.

[GF]

@Meg said in Suspected Superhero Creeping Or Something:

Can we hear some examples of what they were doing?

This is a fair ask, but it is not my place to tell stories that were told to me in confidence. I don’t believe any of the individuals I’ve been talking to even have BMD accounts, and I think only one has an MSB account, so it seems unlikely to me they will tell their own stories.

All I feel comfortable saying is, I don’t believe this this was a sudden thing. People have been complaining about him to me about his behavior for a while now, across at least two alts whose names I caught.

[hellfrog]

@GF said in Suspected Superhero Creeping Or Something:

@Meg said in Suspected Superhero Creeping Or Something:

Can we hear some examples of what they were doing?

This is a fair ask, but it is not my place to tell stories that were told to me in confidence.

I get that, but in that case you should not even bring them up.

This is what Runescryer also said. “People have told me x! So much x! But I can’t say who or give details, that’s for them to do if they want.”

It’s a suspicious look. If you were sworn to secrecy, keep the fkin secret and shhhh.

[Pavel]

@hellfrog said in Suspected Superhero Creeping Or Something:

@GF said in Suspected Superhero Creeping Or Something:

@Meg said in Suspected Superhero Creeping Or Something:

Can we hear some examples of what they were doing?

This is a fair ask, but it is not my place to tell stories that were told to me in confidence.

I get that, but in that case you should not even bring them up.

This is what Runescryer also said. “People have told me x! So much x! But I can’t say who or give details, that’s for them to do if they want.”

It’s a suspicious look. If you were sworn to secrecy, keep the fkin secret and shhhh.

On the one hand, I’d like to agree with this - simply because it makes life easier if we only assess claims based on evidence.

On the other, knowing that there are others out there with similar experiences - even if they’re unvoiced - can be a catalyst to people speaking out about their experiences too.

[GF]

@hellfrog I didn’t bring them up for you or for this audience. I brought them up for Lithium, on the chance that they really believe they did their best at all times and is just the subject of some malicious conspiracy. If that is the case, then it may help them to do better if they knows how many people felt uncomfortable enough around them to leave channels they were on and avoid events they signed up for. It may inspire them to reflect and to think about how their behavior looks to others.

If they, or anyone else, will not believe me because I do not provide details, then that is unfortunate, but I did the best I could while obeying my conscience. You can choose to believe whomever you find more convincing, and I sincerely hope your choice works out for you.