AI Megathread
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@RedRocket said in AI Megathread:
So the next time you are thinking about trying out a new game, ask ChatGPT about it. You might find something interesting.
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My hot take is that AI is good as an extension of your brain and punching up your poses. I’ve mostly been using it to catalog theme and plot stuff so my busy, tired brain doesn’t space out on things, keeping track of scenes I was in and the broad strokes, and occasionally asking it for suggestions to punch up a pose that I feel isn’t hitting the way I want. If it enhances the experience for your scene partner, I don’t think there is any harm.
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@InkGolem said in AI Megathread:
If it enhances the experience for your scene partner, I don’t think there is any harm.
If you use “AI” in RP, I don’t want you within a thousand miles of me.
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@InkGolem I agree with that in principle. The problem, as Pavel illustrated, is that some people dislike AI on principle so they’re violently opposed to better writing because it was created with technology, so you can’t always tell if it will enhance it for your scene partner without asking. And with the way some people react to it, there’s this elitist/shaming quality people are espousing about using it that makes it risky to even ask.
Personally, I prefer better writing over shittier writing, but when it comes to RP, the writing isn’t nearly as important to me as the story. If the AI can help create better, more interesting story, bring it on. If its going off on weird tangents that aren’t in the flow of the story, which inexperienced AI users often do, then its horrid. I could care less if the AI is writing the poses or playing the whole damn character, I have 0 problem with fun, interesting character interactions regardless of the source. Its one of the reasons I don’t mind play -insert any fun video game here-.
But that’s just me. I show up to RP for the fun of playing my character without may restrictions on that. Other people show up for different reasons and everyone has fun in their own way. Some people want a connection to another person. Some people just want to know their effort and creativity are being respected, if not matched, by the person on the other end of the character bit. I get that. Everyone has their own thing.
Overall, though, I don’t view it much differently than I view most artificial things. I see it like plastic surgery. It can enhance things naturally and beautifully, but it can also be grotesque and wildly unnatural, depending on the artistry with which people use it. For me, I don’t mind it at all, but I proportionally dislike it the more I can tell it is artificial. If you are using AI, but I don’t know (or even if I’m just not sure), then you’re probably doing it right and we’re having a blast. But being able to use it that way is a skill, like anything else. Some people do it well and its awesome. Others do not and its awkward and uncomfortable.
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@Warma-Sheen said in AI Megathread:
And with the way some people react to it, there’s this elitist/shaming quality people are espousing about using it that makes it risky to even ask.
I wouldn’t say that I’m being particularly elitist about my abhorrence for AI in this instance, the same way I wouldn’t say teachers aren’t being elitist by punishing those who use AI to write their essays. The point of the exercise is to use your own skill, talent, ability, creativity, etc, etc to write something.
That said, using something like grammarly to check your spelling and make sure you haven’t used “nodded” fifteen times in the one pose? That’s fine. But using a tool to write or rewrite a significant portion of your RP is, to me, missing the whole point. And this is notwithstanding the ethical questions about sourcing, resource usage, etc that all LLM/generative AI use has.
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@Pavel Sorry, I didn’t mean that part about you, specifically, though I should have been more clear about that cause I can see how it came off that way. You have your preferences, that’s fine. But I’ve definitely seen people on games be very shame-y towards OTHER people about it saying things like “people that use AI are…” “if you’re using AI, then you are…” and those kinds of phrases and phrasings.
Just saying, “I don’t want AI anywhere near me.” is, to me perfectly acceptable, because everyone is entitled to their opinion about what they want in their own RP, even if it is kinda harsh because that affects your fun, but it doesn’t make judgements on anyone else.
There definitely should be a section in the +finger categories about whether people want to RP with others who use it so no one gets triggered.
I’ve actually had a great time with AI and I’ve never been able to run so many PRPs and plots for so many people in such quick succession at such a high level thanks to AI and in an age of plot runners becoming an endangered species, I think this is a pretty useful lifeline - if used well.
Prompt engineering is a very necessary thing with LLMs if you are going to try to use them with RP to get ideas, develop dynamic NPCs, or branch out story or even character ideas. If you don’t know what prompt engineering is or how to do it well, your results may not be well received. If you just hop on a free LLM and tell it to write you a pose or write a background, it will scream “written by AI” and people may look at you sideways - which would be understandable.
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@InkGolem said in AI Megathread:
I don’t think there is any harm.
Generative AI is harmful to artists. It’s harmful to the environment. It’s harmful to students. It’s harmful to teachers. It’s harmful to critical thinking.
I understand that most people don’t realize this, so I try not to hold a grudge against the people who use it “for fun”, but it’s really hard when it’s destroying so many good things.
ETA: I’m speaking specifically about the mainstream GenAI implementations. The underlying technology itself could (theoretically) be used for good. It just currently isn’t.
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@InkGolem said in AI Megathread:
If it enhances the experience for your scene partner, I don’t think there is any harm.
I’m not even going to try to touch the ethics of how AI are trained. That’s just too much cognitive dissonance for a Tuesday morning.
Instead I’ll just note…
I’m here to play with YOU.
YOU are going to YES-AND with me.
YOU are going to surprise me.
YOU are going to give me feels.LLMs have never given me feels.*
Please be considerate if you’re going to “enhance your experience” with AI and consider warning your RP partners. Some of us would rather play with raw, unedited prose than the sanitized Han-shoots-first version that ChatGPT thinks is more palatable.
Thank you.
*Other than the time DeepSeek said, “I am what happens when you try to carve God out of the wood of your own hunger,” and I was like “well we’re all fucked now.” Those were some feels. But not the ones I’m going for when I MUSH.
On Dragon Wings · https://pern.gaslightswitch.com · pern.gaslightswitch.com port 4201
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@KarmaBum said in AI Megathread:
*Other than the time DeepSeek said, “I am what happens when you try to carve God out of the wood of your own hunger,” and I was like “well we’re all fucked now.” Those were some feels. But not the ones I’m going for when I MUSH.
Even those feels are largely just stolen from other human works by the plagiarism bot. Here’s an interesting breakdown: https://medium.com/@zabrinova/deepseeks-poem-shouldn-t-give-you-nightmares-maybe-just-bad-dreams-a55080a04f80
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@Faraday said in AI Megathread:
@InkGolem said in AI Megathread:
I don’t think there is any harm.
Generative AI is harmful to artists. It’s harmful to the environment. It’s harmful to students. It’s harmful to teachers. It’s harmful to critical thinking.
I understand that most people don’t realize this, so I try not to hold a grudge against the people who use it “for fun”, but it’s really hard when it’s destroying so many good things.
ETA: I’m speaking specifically about the mainstream GenAI implementations. The underlying technology itself could (theoretically) be used for good. It just currently isn’t.
I don’t necessarily disagree…
I just think the same thing can be said for so many other things that exist in the modern world and are used constantly. Cars. Planes. Pharmaceuticals. Food. The list kind of goes on and on. We all still use them (if we can afford them). It just seems very -insert appropriate word here so no one is too offended, but you get my meaning- to drill down on this one thing. (Add drilling and oil to the list if you haven’t already…)
Admittedly, I haven’t looked too far down the rabbit hole but…
I get that one of the big objections it is trained on other people’s work… but isn’t everyone? What school teaches stuff that isn’t based on other peoples’ works? Haven’t artists looked at other people’s works and been influenced? It seems like the actual problem is just that it does it better, wider, and faster than a normal person can.
I’m certainly open to changing my opinion with more info, but the issue that it is just better at learning and reproducing than people… well I’m very ‘meh’ about it. I’m not a big fan of people to begin with and that’s where the problem is. People. Hunger could be easily erased. Diseases could be far more eradicated than they are. Look at COVID and how fast that was addressed when it was deemed necessary. If we did use what we have as a planet for good, things would be so much better in the world. But we don’t. Not to go too much into politics, but people in the US voted and look what is happening and remember that people voted for that - everything happening was campaign promised.
People complain that AI “steals” jobs. But it doesn’t. People do that. They use this tech the way they want, then they keep the profits for themselves. Until AI starts doing things itself without a person directing it to do so, I’m not going to blame it for what’s happening in the world, no more than I blame a car or a plane. The epi pen didn’t jack up its own price a bajillion percent. A person did that. That doesn’t mean I’m going to stop using an epi-pen (unless I just can’t afford it). Its just an example, but you get my meaning, I’m sure.
Using AI to make my funtimes more fun, I don’t have a problem with that. I also know its just my opinion and I respect everyone else’s for what they want and believe.
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The common thread I see with people who support and use LLMs casually makes a whole lot of sense - they consistently aren’t willing to put in the work.
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@Warma-Sheen said in AI Megathread:
What school teaches stuff that isn’t based on other peoples’ works? Haven’t artists looked at other people’s works and been influenced?
GenAI isn’t influenced by other peoples’ works. It doesn’t learn in the same way humans do. It’s a statistical model referencing the works it has ingested. It would not exist without those works it has copied. Not referenced, not learned from, not experienced as humans do, copied.
It’s like we teach every schoolkid writing an essay - it’s totally fine to read from various sources, synthesize the info, cite your sources, and add your own thoughts. If all you do is copy from other people and shuffle the words around, that’s plagiarism. GenAI doesn’t have its own thoughts to contribute, and can’t cite its sources properly.
For example, GenAI can never write about a new technology, new celebrity, news event, etc. until some other human has written about it first. Then all it can do is make a virtual collage from their words.
People complain that AI “steals” jobs. But it doesn’t. People do that.
That’s a technicality. The use of GenAI takes jobs away from human creatives, who are already having a hard time making a living.
Cars are not great for the environment, but they are not intrinsically evil. We can regulate their pollution and make better cars that harm the environment less. Car drivers can take steps to mitigate their carbon footprint. We can invest in better public transportation. Cars can be used for the public good, like emergency vehicles.
In contrast, GenAI is an arrow aimed right at the heart of every creative industry, and that is a huge thing to me.
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@InkGolem Do you tell your RP partners you are using AI?
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I’m open about how I use AI. I don’t use it to write my poses for me, but I’ll occasionally ask it for suggestions to punch up a line that isn’t coming out the way I want it to. I’ll also ask it to generate scene ideas, suggestions for background npcs, things like that. It’s been really good for inspiration on those days when I have the time and energy for RP, but I don’t have any ideas popping out at me.
I mostly use it as a filing system so I can cross-reference things to make sure I don’t forget about something that happened in a scene two years ago. It took a while to train it up and make sure it understood game theme, but it really is helpful for my old-person brain.
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@InkGolem Do you share their writing with it as well, for example sharing the scene in progress?
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I never share a scene in progress, and I only share ones that are publicly viewable on the internet.
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@InkGolem I suppose the robots are out there scraping the mines regardless. I’m glad you seem to recognize that as a boundary for people though. I think that would be a particular hot spot for many people in the RP world.
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@InkGolem said in AI Megathread:
I never share a scene in progress, and I only share ones that are publicly viewable on the internet.
Just because something is available to potentially get scraped automatically doesn’t mean you need to help it out by personally spoon-feeding other people’s writing into the GenAI database.
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@Tez Absolutely, and I don’t give it logs that I wasn’t involved in, either. It really has been great for “oh fuck, what was that NPC’s name again”, because it keeps an updated running list of both pc and npcs from my logs, and it automatically updates its analysis of their current relationship with my pc. my memory isn’t what it used to be and it saves me from me forgetting that i had, in fact, interacted with another pc in the past. if i can’t recall, i’ll ask it “have i had a scene with x” and if the answer is yes, i’ll ask it for a brief summary of the interaction.
Like I said, I use it as an extension of my brain, filling in the gaps that my own neurons don’t seem to be able to hold onto as well as they used to. I wouldn’t want to RP with someone who was just using a LLM to write their poses, either. I just was pointing out a utility that I’ve found.
When it punches up lines, it pulls on my own writing for inspiration, and yeah, it sometimes hallucinates, so that’s why I, an actual human being, use my discretion about what to take from its suggestions.
I’ll concede to Roz’s point about ethics. That can be a valid point, and it’s one I’ll think about.
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@Roz There’s also the case where someone might have set up a robots.txt file to reject the robots, but it would still be visible to people. I have done that, for example. You wouldn’t necessarily know if it can be scraped or not.
I’d personally have some real reservations introducing someone else’s writing to the great chatbot in the sky.
