Scenes within Scenes
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In my experience, it’s not even the case that the code is used to avoid people interrupting; it’s to avoid people having to keep track of fifty people’s poses to find the people their PC is closest to. If there are twenty or so people in a scene, it’s legitimately difficult for some of us to keep track of what’s going on, with places the ‘main’ scene turns into a bit of a pantomime, and the places scene is where we actually do the bulk of the RP—occasionally stopping to shout ‘he’s behind you’ to the main stage.
It’s a surprisingly elegant solution to that problem.
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@Pavel said in Scenes within Scenes:
In my experience, it’s not even the case that the code is used to avoid people interrupting; it’s to avoid people having to keep track of fifty people’s poses to find the people their PC is closest to. If there are twenty or so people in a scene, it’s legitimately difficult for some of us to keep track of what’s going on, with places the ‘main’ scene turns into a bit of a pantomime, and the places scene is where we actually do the bulk of the RP—occasionally stopping to shout ‘he’s behind you’ to the main stage.
It’s a surprisingly elegant solution to that problem.
Yeah, this is what I like places for. I do not mind large scenes; I can actually really enjoy a large scene, even an announcements-and-meeting scene! But I want to have a sense of being able to RP with a smaller group WITHIN that space without having to always worry about missing poses or spamming the greater room (since a small conversation is likely to go faster than the larger scene).
Places help keep me engaged and on track. I’d want any replacement for them to be able to tick those boxes. (I get why Ares can’t, and I can’t even imagine the nightmare it’d be for logging.)
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@Pyrephox flippant example, as that’s usually all I have, but I see your point. Replace “throw tomato” with “smuggle in a weapon, ask a salient question, etc.”
The idea that the whole scene is impervious to characters feels like lazy storytelling.
Which I’ve totally been a lazy storyteller and just put a scene on rails or slapped a post up because I didn’t want to deal with curve balls. It happens, but if it happens often, I should probably tell a more interactive story.
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@KarmaBum said in Scenes within Scenes:
The idea that the whole scene is impervious to characters feels like lazy storytelling.
Well, it’s less that the scene is impervious to interaction and more that people find it really annoying when people interrupt. At least in my experience. Sure, it could still involve lazy storytelling, but it’s typically an OOC cultural thing rather than strictly a matter of scene design.
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I see both ways on the issue of scene disruption. Sometimes a scene should be disrupted because there’s a story reason to do so and it absolutely makes sense to Aragorn those doors open and smash your way in to what’s going on for drama and impact, and other times, I’m officiating a three-legged race for silly prizes and someone has shown up to be very angry at me because my planned event scene that has been calendared for weeks tonally clashes with a GMed emit from two hours ago where someone died.
I think it can absolutely be fun to do tabletalk about a large event scene, I do think that speaking in low voices about what is happening in the broader scene can have value and develop story in and of its own right, and I don’t want to either spam the main scene with my amazing jokes OR feel compelled to try and throw a grenade in order to disrupt the flow of what’s going on. I’ve had a lot of fun playing a smaller scene inside a larger scene! I would have been super self-conscious being on my bullshit in front of all 50 people that were in the room as opposed to the 7 who were at my bench!
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@KarmaBum said in Scenes within Scenes:
@Pyrephox flippant example, as that’s usually all I have, but I see your point. Replace “throw tomato” with “smuggle in a weapon, ask a salient question, etc.”
The idea that the whole scene is impervious to characters feels like lazy storytelling.
Somebody once told me that if a story can’t survive contact with the people it’s being told to, it’s probably better just being written
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@Pyrephox said in Scenes within Scenes:
But I want to have a sense of being able to RP with a smaller group WITHIN that space without having to always worry about missing poses or spamming the greater room (since a small conversation is likely to go faster than the larger scene).
But if you’re not interacting with anyone outside of your little group, and you don’t want to spam other people or be spammed in return, why does the room actually matter? What is the tangible advantage of keeping everyone jammed together rather than in separate rooms / separate scenes?
You can do the same big “announcement” emits to multiple rooms in a variety of ways to keep a shared context. It doesn’t even require any special code or tools, just some coordination among a few staff alts / NPCs.
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Anything that requires a massive scene attendance but no one but a couple people have anything to actual do. This is absolutely something that can be done on their own and then have the log posted to a wiki and the +bb system.
This could have been an email. In Scene form.
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@Faraday said in Scenes within Scenes:
But if you’re not interacting with anyone outside of your little group, and you don’t want to spam other people or be spammed in return, why does the room actually matter? What is the tangible advantage of keeping everyone jammed together rather than in separate rooms / separate scenes?
Because one can interact with people outside of their little group, should they choose. They can ask the salient question, smuggle weapons, throw fruit-but-vegetables. There are more options.
He/Him. Opinions and views are solely my own unless specifically stated otherwise.
BE AN ADULT -
I don’t have a strong feeling about them one way or another. I remember back on Metro (I’m old, okay?) if you had super hearing you could listen to what was happening at table talk. I learned so much stuff and some stuff I wish I could un-learn.
I appreciated it when on Arx I was walking around in a mask at the blood moon giving people their futures and their destinies. I mean sure I was making them up on the spot when they failed their dice game with me, but it was private to their table to share or not share, but the room knew I was bartering secrets for futures.
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@Pavel said in Scenes within Scenes:
Because one can interact with people outside of their little group, should they choose.
Theoretically I guess, but in my experience this almost never happens. (see the comments above regarding interruptions, being yelled at for spam, etc.)
The only poses I ever saw going to the main room were the static announcements or the “oops I forgot to use tt command” nonsense.
But to each their own.
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@Faraday said in Scenes within Scenes:
@Pavel said in Scenes within Scenes:
Because one can interact with people outside of their little group, should they choose.
Theoretically I guess, but in my experience this almost never happens. (see the comments above regarding interruptions, being yelled at for spam, etc.)
The only poses I ever saw going to the main room were the static announcements or the “oops I forgot to use tt command” nonsense.
But to each their own.
Irritatingly true, but I feel that might be a misapplication of the idea. If one is being loud and rambunctious at their table then it should be part of the main scene as well.
But I have no llama in this race, I don’t have the attention span for a 90-minute movie without checking my phone, much less a 90-minute “look how great I am” romp with fifty other half-dressed participants.
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@Faraday said in Scenes within Scenes:
@Pavel said in Scenes within Scenes:
Because one can interact with people outside of their little group, should they choose.
Theoretically I guess, but in my experience this almost never happens. (see the comments above regarding interruptions, being yelled at for spam, etc.)
The only poses I ever saw going to the main room were the static announcements or the “oops I forgot to use tt command” nonsense.
But to each their own.
raises hand i saw it happen a lot on places like arx. depending on the event, it would be a mix of posing to the room and posing to tabletalk, people would pose indicators of reactions that would be notable enough for others in the scene to see, move between different tabletalk areas, react to something happening outside of tabletalk, etc. these weren’t rarities, they were things i’d see at nearly every event scene of any size.
she/her | playlist
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@Roz I fear any time we speak of generalities in MUing we’re going to have to have “Except on Arx” as a meme—like Crash Course World History’s near-infamous Except The Mongols crash-cut (as they are the exception to so many of history’s expectations).
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I definitely had some very cool interactions at those giant Arx scenes where a lot of the RP was in tabletalk and then we interacted with what was going on in the wider scene. Not just on Arx either. And one time at a hatching an impression from the stands that wasn’t me but was very cool to interact with that would have been impossible without the places.
Or like-- party scenes where stuff from flows smoothly from tabletalk in and out, can totally happen. I can remember a couple of cool things like this from olden times. It just requires people not to be assholes.
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Why even play on a game with a large player base that is suppose to interact with each other then? I have always enjoyed large scenes because I believe it makes the world feel more alive. Even if its a scene I have nothing to do in, getting 20/30/40+ people together, online, all at once, is cool. Tables and places can make that more manageable, but I think the chaos of a large scene is part of the charm.
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making giant scenes OOCly mandatory — and saying that your character is shirking on their IC duty if you’re not at the scene — is indeed bad game policy. i understand that this was more common back in the day in certain areas of the hobby.
but i do think that it’s not strictly relevant to the more fundamental question of how tabletalk is and can be used. it’s a bad policy that games shouldn’t have, not something that’s inherent to all large scenes as a rule.
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@real_mirage said in Scenes within Scenes:
Why even play on a game with a large player base that is suppose to interact with each other then? I have always enjoyed large scenes because I believe it makes the world feel more alive. Even if its a scene I have nothing to do in, getting 20/30/40+ people together, online, all at once, is cool. Tables and places can make that more manageable, but I think the chaos of a large scene is part of the charm.
A game with a large player base I don’t mind, that provides a much wider variety of opportunities for RP. A large number of people in one scene? Definitely not for me for a number of reasons.
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Pacing. The larger the scene, the slower the pacing and it’s a domino effect. If you want to interact with everyone, you will need to wait for a number of poses before being able to respond, including a GM emit if it’s an event. So if someone has to take a little more time to think of how to react and the next person has to do the same, the pacing can grind to a very slow pace. Which can result to a scene going 5+ hours to get through enough pose rounds for something substantial to be accomplished without feeling rushed.
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Easier for people to get lost in the mix, harder to feel like you are contribute meaningfully, more challenging for those that do not naturally have a louder voice to be heard.
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For me, large scenes are much more mentally taxing to keep track of what is going on with everyone and being constantly worried that you missed something someone else did that was crucial. You also hate to feel like you left someone out by accident and they take it as a slight.
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Brain melting. Some people are great at large scenes and running events, personally it can be a challenge for me. It is also faster to drain the mental stamina as well which can be a shame because I want to try to stay sharp enough to continue to contribute.
On table and place posing, I know that it would probably make it harder on Ares in terms of posting the log. Maybe a table doesn’t want their part of the log posted, but I believe in Ares, everything is posted. Which is why it has a pseudo place code where it’s just normal posing, with a header of where that person is situated in the code.
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@KDraygo said in Scenes within Scenes:
On table and place posing, I know that it would probably make it harder on Ares in terms of posting the log. Maybe a table doesn’t want their part of the log posted, but I believe in Ares, everything is posted. Which is why it has a pseudo place code where it’s just normal posing, with a header of where that person is situated in the code.
i mean, in a hypothetical world where there was a tabletalk system on a game that kept it quiet during the scene for spam reasons, but then posted everything into the final log — which is actually an idea i was muddling over with friends earlier today — then it doesn’t matter if a table does or doesn’t want to have their tabletalk posted; if that’s how the system worked, that’s how it would work, and people would be forewarned and they’d adjust to the code or bail.
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@KDraygo said in Scenes within Scenes:
On table and place posing, I know that it would probably make it harder on Ares in terms of posting the log. Maybe a table doesn’t want their part of the log posted, but I believe in Ares, everything is posted. Which is why it has a pseudo place code where it’s just normal posing, with a header of where that person is situated in the code.
Ares doesn’t suppress table talk. It just identifies which poses are happening in which places. It would be difficult to suppress table talk on the web portal because you could potentially be controlling multiple alts and/or NPCs simultaneously from the same window. Also Ares’ scene system fundamentally doesn’t modify / customize the pose output per player. Anyone subscribed to the scene sees the same thing. You’d have to make significant structural changes to the scene system to support old-school table talk. And since I hate it, I have no intention of ever doing so.
