Comic Games Are Still Fun!

[Prototart]

oh, hi there. i will be using big girl grammar and even capitalization for this one!

Before we begin, I’ll recount a bit of history. HAM - Heroes Assembled - is a splinter, or more appropriately a revenge game, derived from UH, United Heroes.

United Heroes was originally run by Claremont, a serial sex pest, had a wizard named Ditko who was an incredibly aggressive sexual harasser, and was filled with staff who knew that these things happened but actively gaslight, attacked, or outright banned anyone who brought them up.

This status quo persisted for several years, interrupted only when Ruby, Claremont’s chief attack dog and TS partner, decided she didn’t want to TS with him anymore. Claremont responded by undoing all the things he had let her get away with because of her position, which was a step too for. Sexually harassing players was one thing, but a friend? That won’t do, sir! THAT is unethical!

And, so, much of UH’s staff, until now not simply fine with how the game was run but willing to viciously attack anyone who aired their dirty laundry, their morals at last outraged, quit en masse and created a new game - Heroes Assembled.

HAM was in all but name run by Chaucer, someone who actively despises comic books and was never shy about letting everyone on this comic book game know if, God forbid, they wanted to do something from a comic book. He was demeaning and insulting to the vast majority of the player base, and complaints were routinely filed against him only to be ignored or for the person who filed them to be quietly kicked from the game for vague reasons.

Recently, HAM reached the same breaking point UH did. It’s fun when it’s done to players, but it’s unconscionable when it’s done to someone else. And, so, Chaucer was fired. Which triggered this series of posts:

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Message: 2/529 Posted Author
Dismissed from Staff Mar 10 2024 Caitlin Fairchild

I have been dismissed from Staff.

I want to make it very clear, to everyone, that I am not leaving staff because of you players. I love working with you. I love getting to help tell your story. I am greatly fulfilled when I help someone turn a rough idea into a diamond of a character. Or discover deeper connections to our lore than they knew their character had. You have been there for me through rough times, and I am truly grateful to have been there for you. Coming up with our IC lore and theme has been one of my proudest accomplishments as a writer. We have taken this game and built it into something totally unique. Not just a sandbox, but a coherentworld* where your character’s actions leave a permanent set of footprints in the sand.

Shakespeare has informed me that we simply do not have ‘compatible visions’ for how to run a game. And to be honest, I have run out of gas. The last four years on staff have been a constant struggle. There have been too many times where I have seen her unapologetically lash out at players and staff because she is tired or upset or angry. I am tired of enforcing and explaining policies that don’t make sense to me. Of watching standards be inequitably applied, with Shakespeare’s buddies getting preferential treatment. I keep proposing ways to address the problems players bring to my attention but I have learned that changing anything, anything at all, starts an immediate uphill battle. Whether it is recognizing that policy can’t cover 100% of all concepts, or even something as simple as opening Space! up to you players, the biggest obstacle to change is always Shakespeare’s stubborn insistence that her policy is above criticism.
[6:26 PM]
At a recent sit-down, I (rather flatly) told Shakespeare my problem with her is how she hurts players in her fits of pique or anger. How stubborn she is and how hard she clings to policies that the players themselves disagree with. I came to that discussion in good faith, wanting to find a way we can work together. I realized right away that she came to that ‘talk’ not with the intention of finding a way forward, but to get me to resign from my position. I learned her problem with me is that I don’t just roll over when she insists her policies are inviolable and sacrosanct. That my sense of fairness, my judgement, has no impact on what she feels like doing in the moment; that there are no exceptions to her rules except the ones she allows. In years previous she has promised to change, to grow up, to share the load and work with me than against me. I have concluded that she never really intended to stick with those promises. I tried to tell her that she can’t just rule this game by executive fiat. To quote Shakespeare: “I do have final say. I have always had it. It is my game, and invited others to come help and be part if they wished to. That that hasn’t been accepted by you has been one of the biggest sources of friction.”

I feel like I am letting you all down, and I am very sorry for it. I feel defeated. That my ideas aren’t welcome as a staffer. Shakespeare says I am the problem, that I’m causing her too much stress and frustration. Still, I don’t intend to give up my characters. At the end of the day, I am a player here, too. This post is to ensure you folks understand that you aren’t the cause of my disaffection. I wish you all the best of luck, and I’m still here to help you with lore, chargen and storytelling to the best of my ability-- staff bit or no.

Yours,
-The Player Formerly Known as Chaucer.

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Message: 1/171 Posted Author
Chaucer leaving staff Mar 10 2024 Shakespeare

Hey folks. I asked Chaucer to take a leave from staff tonight. We’re not going to ax grind about it, so I’ll give you as neutral an explanation as I can.

There has been ongoing friction for a very long time, over different views on the game. It is only getting worse. And it finally hit a point that it wasn’t healthy for anyone involved to continue.

I asked him to take a leave. He responded poorly. And that’s where it is. The game will continue.

I have a lot of respect for what Chaucer’s done even as we’ve had major disagreements. I wish it hadn’t ended up like this, but this is where it’s at. Thank you for patience.

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Message: 1/172 Posted Author
Resigning from Staff Mar 24 2024 Coleridge

Hello HAMmers, It's your friendly neighborhood staffer Coleridge here, saying goodbye. No, I'm not leaving the game, but I am stepping down as a staffer. Some of you are no doubt wondering if this is connected to Chaucer being removed from staff, and I'll get to that. First I want to say it has been fun. I've worked to help a lot of you on details of plots, or applications for new characters or +sheet updates, and seeing the ideas and imagination out there is great. I've tried to treat the staffing job as if I was an editor on a comic title, helping writers to integrate their ideas into the greater comics universe they are writing in and providing them a sounding board. We've got a fun bunch of writers here.

So on to the elephant in the room. Chaucer and Shakespeare have been the two biggest driving forces for what made HAM such a fantastic place to RP. As is so often the case, they complemented each other's strengths, and balanced out each other's weaknesses. Removing Chaucer from the equation was in my opinion a poor decision. It was also one that was done without consulting staff as a whole, and that was the worse decision. 

Had Chaucer been removed by majority vote of staff, or just resigned (which was very likely) I might not have felt the need to resign myself, but I'd still be discontented with the situation. Since I started as staff a year and a half ago I have been pushing for improvements to policy, and it has been a struggle to get any traction. On top of that there have been a number of decisions lately that I have been unhappy about, but I won't go into details. Stepping down seems to me the best way to make it clear how I feel, in the hope that improvements will be made.

I'll still be around as Donna and Colette, and on Discord as Colette_1. I don't intend on airing any dirty laundry, but if you want to talk, I'm around. More importantly, I'm here for that lovely RP!

Lastly I'd like to remind everyone that this is all just creative differences. In this community we've seen all seen games go horribly wrong, and many of you will remember older games with problems that were far deeper and nastier than these. In this situation there are no villains; just good people who disagree how things should be done.

--------------------< Comment 1 - Added Mar 24 10:59PM EDT >--------------------
Shakespeare Commented:
I’d like to thank Coleridge for all she’s done for the game. She’s been a good voice in our discussions, and frequently made good recommendations on feedback on characters, events and theme issues. Staffing is never easy and brings on stress and extra work. I’m very grateful for Coleridge’s contributions, and appreciate the honest discussions we’ve had including today around her choice to leave staff. Thank you, Coleridge.

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Message: 1/175 Posted Author
Resigning From Staff Apr 02 2024 Stoker

Hey Folks,

Rejoice!

For I am going to be stepping down from staff. I know that I have not been the greatest and if I ever did anything that upset you, please accept my apologies or hold a mush career long grudge, your choice!

I was really hoping that I could get myself to stay for the players and I just can’t.

I am nothing but stressed when I log into Stoker and it has been that way for the last couple of months. I come from a different style of staffing and I’ve felt like the odd person out at times on situations. Completely my hangup.

There have been a lot of missteps the last few months and those are also effecting my decision. There also seems to be no change on the horizon, so before I pull all of my beautiful hair out of my head, I will resign and focus on my characters here.

I will leave you with some parting wisdom:

https://i.imgur.com/N2gdXlZ.jpeg

Protect Your Mental Health,
Stoker (Wendigo)

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Message: 2/541 Posted Author
Stoker Apr 02 2024 Donna Troy

We can't +bbcomment on board 1 posts, so in the wake of her resignation (+bbread 1/175) I'm posting here to thank Stoker for all the hard work she put in over the years as a staffer.

 Stoker had been helping the game from the start by running Happy Harbor, so she was a great choice to invite onto staff. She always more than pulled her weight in staffing duties, and if you've ever put in a +request for an app, a vacation or pretty much anything else there's a high chance she contributed. Even if you never saw the contribution she would often add informative and helpful staff comments to jobs other staffers were handling, and was active in the staff discord channel, trying to help steer HAM in better directions when it needed it. 

Regret nothing, Stoker. Your hair is worth more than the frustration of trying to roll that boulder uphill.

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Just as HAM began, Chaucer and his friends are busy making a revenge game of their very own, one that will even allow plagiarized apps from HAM and use the same, 500-plus page theme/timeline Chaucer has spent years writing to grind everything recognizable about Marvel and DC into a homogenous grey paste that appeals to no one but him and his friends who are written into it. Several of them remain staff on HAM for the moment, the better to recruit players and undermine Shakespeare.

Now, I was one of a number of people banned for filing a complaint against Chaucer. With all the right people seeming to be outraged, I figured - why not ask? (Okay, you know why, but I wanted to prove it to my friends.)

Well, here’s why:

You paged Shakespeare with ‘Hi, this is Prototart. I was, to directly quote your page, kicked for “past acrimony, including issues from games that predate HAM.” This happened after I filed a complaint against Chaucer for insulting me and telling me I was not worth his time over the last character I applied for prior to briefly claiming Raven, a character that had until then been played by a friend of his, an action I have been told enraged both of them as well as several others. Given that the people who have not been fired or resigned are explicitly remaining here to insult you to anyone who will listen and steal players for the revenge game they’re making during occasional breaks from non-stop badmouthing you, your character, and your intelligence in a Discord that isn’t nearly as private as they think it is, does that judgement still stand?’
Shakespeare (S) pages: I don’t have all the details of the incidents fresh in my head. But I think I recall that there I didn’t sense a willingness to work out a resolution, to where I didn’t expect there would be future problems. That’s a hard thing for me to overcome. Definitely for now where I am not fresh up on events anymore, I think the judgment would have to stand, yes.
You paged Shakespeare with ‘I mean, the ‘incident’ was me pushing back on Chaucer when he started to demean me in an app and him telling me he wasn’t worth anyone’s time and to never apply again. I can literally cut/paste the exact statement you made to me, if you’d like. There was a problem that couldn’t be resolved only only because of someone you fired for being abusive.’
Shakespeare (S) pages: It wasn’t a good situation from any angle I agree. But the resolution was as much about how it was handled. People have to be able to resolve conflicts and coexist and sometimes it’s necessary to just sever connections when that doesn’t seem likely to happen. And the way it went, that was the feeling I was left with that any future conflicts would not be resolved either. I’m sorry, but going to be sticking with the decision for the time being.

It might be worth mentioning, at this point, that they DID welcome back someone who was banned for sexually harassing female players, someone banned with a bbpost and all - one that simply vanished one night not long before that player’s OC returned to the grid.

So, remember: being a predator might be bad, but it’s way worse to follow the recommend steps for resolving conflict with staff.

A link to the last thread on HAM, which I didn’t bump because it’s been dead for over a year:

https://brandmuday.mythicus.net/topic/114/comic-games-are-fun

[Testament]

Guys, I don’t think comic games are still fun.

[somasatori]

[Prototart]

@Testament said in Comic Games Are Still Fun!:

Guys, I don’t think comic games are still fun.

sorry but what’s not to enjoy about a culture where it’s totally okay for someone to explain in the OOC room that’s it’s fine to date teenagers because of some comics from the 80s

[ten]

newp.

[GF]

There is probably something profound or insightful to say about how HAM was formed because the staff of their previous game quit en masse after the head staffer started treating them as badly as he treated the peon players, only for the response game built from that exodus to seem to go exactly the same route.

But if there is, I’m too dispirited to go looking for it. The abusive staff who could only bother to take a moral stance against abuse once someone more powerful was abusing them went on to create a new, abusive game* where they took no moral stance against abuse until someone more powerful than them was abusing them. There may or may not now be a third generation of splinter games where the cycle will continue, all because of wanting power over dorks like me who think it would be neat to be a superhero and wear sexy spandex.

So, I dunno, pretend I posted that meme about leopards and faces.

*EDIT: I have no tea to spill here, just stories from friends whom I trust implicitly.

[Coin]

@Testament said in Comic Games Are Still Fun!:

Guys, I don’t think comic games are still fun.

I think comic games are fun as long as you’re playing with good people.

[MisterBoring]

@GF said in Comic Games Are Still Fun!:

There is probably something profound or insightful to say about how HAM was formed because the staff of their previous game quit en masse after the head staffer started treating them as badly as he treated the peon players, only for the response game built from that exodus to seem to go exactly the same route.

I’m starting to believe that a combination of institutional memory and “make victims lest you be victims” (to quote an RL friend) are modus operandi for a portion of the tabletop (and online, and live) RPG community.

[renaveleigh]

So, beyond the sins of HAM itself - of which there are clearly many! - I think it’s important to bear in mind that it’s just another link in what is swiftly becoming a chain of games created exclusively to house the right abusive staff and player figures.

Like Prototart said, Heroes Assembled MUSH was the result of the very same people who aided, abetted, and participating in sexually harassing and/or emotionally abusing others on United Heroes MUSH objecting to no longer being allowed to do so with the same impunity, or guarantee of safety from the same treatment they visited upon others. Crucially, its main driver - the aforementioned Chaucer, AKA Halicron around these parts, I believe - was someone well aware of the kind of place that United Heroes before finally leaving in protest-- because years prior to doing so, he’d already left in disgust and protest due to the entirely unrelated scandal in which Ditko’s abusive tendencies, and the rest of the United Heroes staff’s apathy towards the same was initially exposed. In doing so, he began nurturing the seed that would eventually bloom into his beloved thicket of a theme, but not without facing obstacles. Among the moderately sized group of players his morals apparently drove him to leave beside, the sentiment that his theme - which at one point attributed the entirety of the fictional African superstate of Wakanda’s technological prowess and bloodline connection to the special herb that empowers its rulers to the presence of a race of (predominantly white) alien colonizers crashing there in ancient times and interbreeding with the local populace, uplifting them into a hybrid race capable of fully accepting their gifts, alongside a host of other bizarre additions driven primarily by his simultaneously disdain for comic books and blind confidence in his own abilities - was in fact a confusing, unwieldy mess that would prove a detriment to incoming players not already familiar with its bare bones from previous exposure (or willing to overlook its egregious flaws due to kinship or other such factors) almost immediately drove him directly back to United Heroes for the run that would ultimately culminate in-- leaving, in disgust, because the same people who had already proven to be abusive shits were still abusive shits.

The main difference, of course, is that the second time around, he was happy to bring along some of the very same untrustworthy personalities who’d proven themselves abusive or supportive on the first go 'round, because this time they were his friends.

On Heroes Assembled MUSH, Halicron’s ~decade long pattern of being a player and occasional admin characterized primarily by narcissism neatly tucked beneath a veneer of personability reached what felt like a zenith. Beyond the behavior which Prototart outlined - his love of treating people who were interested in taking inspiration from comic books like idiots; his willingness to directly insult the ones he didn’t feel like processing apps from - he made a habit of refusing character claim requests (read: requests for the passwords of previously created character objects, so that players could go through the app process on those objects) from people who he felt ‘shouldn’t’ play those characters for whatever reasons he deemed fit, including feeling that they should ‘branch out’ and try someone in one of the two or three fiefdoms of the game he felt were worth exploring.

His takes on long-established women characters like Janet ‘The Wasp’ Van-Dyne seemed to stem primarily from his own natural ignorance of the source material combined with barely latent misogyny: Janet for example, a character mostly depicted as a fiesty, big-hearted and ballsy heroine with an empathic streak became a bitter billionaire drug addict with sociopathic tendencies under Halicron’s pen, a take which he was not only deeply proud of, but insisted was the only logical understanding of a character who dates back to 1963, despite it not lining up with any version of the character published between then and now.

When confronted - multiple times - with the news that two of his good friends (Vorpal, a player who inspired a generation of comic MUs to ban original characters for the express purpose of keeping him from bringing yet another iteration of the tiresome self-insert he has been playing since 2013 or so; and Wolfs, a player notorious in comic MU spaces for trying to coerce strangers into engaging with their latex fetishes) were responsible for bullying a long-standing player off of the game, his initial response was to get angry at me for bringing it up (publicly, granted); his subsequent response was to close an official complaint on the matter roughly five minutes after its submission with a tepid promise to look into it which was never again followed up on. Whether this is because he’s friends with these players, he disliked me for making A Problem out of it in the wrong way, he disliked the person being bullied, or some other, unforeseen factor, I obviously can’t say; I was never given any indication that he did indeed care, take the issue seriously, or say a word about it to any of the involved parties, though.

Why bring all of this up in a long-ass reply to a long-ass post venting about someone who has already flounced away from a game and inspired his cronies to do the same, poisoning the well as they go? Because like Prototart said, they’re gearing up to do it all over again. If there’s anything you take from anything that’s been said about this game, these people, and their future endeavors, please let it be this: do not indulge them. Do not waste your time and energy on a space that exists to give abusive people a fresh hunting ground. Do not confuse a game with explicit carve-outs…

Each player may have one character on +reserve. When a character opens or hits +idle, reserves are processed on a first come, first serve basis. The first player in line has one week to claim the character. At the end of a week, or if the player declines, the reserve goes to the next player in line. If no one claims the character, they are set Open and are available to app.  There is a 24 hour window after opening to allow any interested party a chance to pitch for the recently opened character. 

The original player must wait one week before they can put a new +claim on the character. 

To +claim a reserve:

*Player must not have any idle characters on their account.
*OCs and NCs have a +kudos in the last 21 days.
*Player must have sufficient space in their roster for the new character.

+Interest

Players may express interest in up to three characters at once. Reserves take priority over interest. Players may check to see if their character has any +interest flags. This means another player is potentially interested in playing the character. If these flagged characters start having issues with their activity or +kudos requirements, staff will approach the player to discuss whether or not the player wishes to retain the character. EFCs and MFCs must submit a plan of action to improve their activity in the next 60 days. This is primarily a tool for Staff to gauge interest among players in writing the character.

-----

One of the things that will impact this system is how we're going to kind of overhaul the +idle system. Things are going to be handled on a case by case basis, and we aren't going to just reap a list of characters because they've hit idle and have a reserve.

While I can't necessarily give any hard numbers yet, if someone has been playing a character for a long while (or alternatively, have been playing characters plural for a long while) without any issues, we will at the very least want to talk with that player before opening the character.

… to create exceptions to its activity rules for the benefit of staff and staff’s friends to either hold onto their own characters in circumstances when inactivity should lead to losing them, or claim desired characters from others on the grounds of expressed interest for one that is in any way conducive to cooperative storytelling. On at least two occasions, Chaucer has personally seen to it that players who claim characters played by one of his friends when they fall idle under Heroes Assembled’s similar ruleset for activity are banned soon after doing so; in one case, this meant ignoring multiple accounts of a player being a sex pest until they had the temerity to claim a character and post that they were new to that character, and planning to depict her in a gentler way than the previous player did, at which point the sex pestery was suddenly exposed and used as grounds for banning.

These are not serious people. These are not particularly GOOD people. These are not people who are equipped to acknowledge the contributions of anyone outside of their orthodoxy of mediocrity, and Halicron in particular has demonstrated a complete inability to serve as an unbiased, approachable, or even particularly useful staff member on every occasion he’s attempted it. I realize that this is not an audience that’s all that high on comic book games to begin with, but for any lurkers, or any occasional 4 color fiends out there: do not go there. Do not go. Break the chain and let it dangle uselessly until it rusts away.

[GF]

@renaveleigh said in Comic Games Are Still Fun!:

his love of treating people who were interested in taking inspiration from comic books like idiots

I know this is the least important thing anyone could ever bring up, but, like, it still drops my jaw when I think about his reimagining of Caitlin Fairchild from a friendless computer nerd with a dumptruck’s worth of self-esteem issues into a genius who routinely invents bleeding edge robots and spends all day barbecuing.

[Prototart]

@GF said in Comic Games Are Still Fun!:

@renaveleigh said in Comic Games Are Still Fun!:

his love of treating people who were interested in taking inspiration from comic books like idiots

I know this is the least important thing anyone could ever bring up, but, like, it still drops my jaw when I think about his reimagining of Caitlin Fairchild from a friendless computer nerd with a dumptruck’s worth of self-esteem issues into a genius who routinely invents bleeding edge robots and spends all day barbecuing.

I was literally about to mention this. He made Caitlin Fairchild a devoutly religious Catholic promiscuous lesbian bull-headed jock super-scientist.

Most insulting of all, he used to tell people he did this because he was so impressed seeing me play her that he just couldn’t stand the thought of someone making her a sex kitten.

I’m happy to rag on Chaucer all day, but I think it’s important to recognize that he wasn’t a sole, malicious force that turned HAM into be a bad game with a poisonous culture run by abusive staffers. That’s a rot that starts at the very top. Everything he and his various friends did for years happened with the knowledge and explicit approval of Shakespeare. He isn’t wrong about her, it’s just that he’s also everything he accuses her of being. My very first interaction with her on HAM was her yelling at me for insulting someone who went on a misogynistic incel tirade in the OOC room.

[Jennkryst]

I do not know if this is one of the games I poked my nose onto and then vanished from, but seems legit bonkers.

[Redbird]

I never actually got through the app process on HAM because I was told by one staffer that my concept seemed great and they were looking forward to it and then I was told via back-channels that Shakespeare on the other hand had pre-veto’d it so continuing to work on it would be wasted effort.

Nothing about this situation or anyone involved looks great, honestly.

[Apos]

@renaveleigh said in Comic Games Are Still Fun!:

These are not serious people. These are not particularly GOOD people. These are not people who are equipped to acknowledge the contributions of anyone outside of their orthodoxy of mediocrity

okay okay but we’re talking about running a MU right, the bar is so low most people trip over it but I think any game runner would die of cringe if someone described them as a serious person because they ran an online roleplaying game well

[renaveleigh]

@Apos said in Comic Games Are Still Fun!:

@renaveleigh said in Comic Games Are Still Fun!:

These are not serious people. These are not particularly GOOD people. These are not people who are equipped to acknowledge the contributions of anyone outside of their orthodoxy of mediocrity

okay okay but we’re talking about running a MU right, the bar is so low most people trip over it but I think any game runner would die of cringe if someone described them as a serious person because they ran an online roleplaying game well

Shit’s relative. ‘Serious’ for this dumb dying hobby is ‘does not perpetuate the abuse of people who choose to spend their time playing on an online roleplaying game’ and ‘will probably not behave like a raging asshole if disagreed with in any way’.

[Prototart]

@Apos

that it’s pathetically easy to do makes it all the more remarkable three generations of game have seen the bar on the floor and announced, “i know! we’ll dig our way under it!”

@Redbird said in Comic Games Are Still Fun!:

I never actually got through the app process on HAM because I was told by one staffer that my concept seemed great and they were looking forward to it and then I was told via back-channels that Shakespeare on the other hand had pre-veto’d it so continuing to work on it would be wasted effort.

the very first char I made there was in app limbo for over a month - like zero word back at all - bc shakespeare just didn’t like the char, something i learned about only when i asked someone why it had been literally a month since i heard anything about my app

and then chaucer approved me over her head bc he liked me then, as i had not got all uppity

(the LAST char i made, he gave a glowing approval for as a concept pitch & then rejected outright and told me i was trash when i very lightly pushed back on something he said during review)

[dvoraen]

@Apos I’m sorry but I can’t resist:

[somasatori]

@Prototart said in Comic Games Are Still Fun!:

(the LAST char i made, he gave a glowing approval for as a concept pitch & then rejected outright and told me i was trash when i very lightly pushed back on something he said during review)

Damn, is he my thesis advisor lmao

[Prototart]

<Xaviers-OOC> Teacher Rogue says, “It’s a place where people go to vent, and make up a lot of stuff, and present it like it’s fact to support their vitriol. Very very bad place.”
<Xaviers-OOC> Dr. Headmistress Jean Grey says, “Also I think it closed didn’t it?”
<Xaviers-OOC> Teacher Scott Summers says, “It’s still open. I’m looking at it right now.”
<Xaviers-OOC> Teacher Rogue says, “there are other ones just like it.”
<Xaviers-OOC> Teacher Scott Summers says, “And I am filled with self-loathing and anger.”
<Xaviers-OOC> Resident Doug Ramsey says, “I didn’t know it was still up. I haven’t logged in there in years.”
<Xaviers-OOC> Teacher Rogue says, “No one should. You’ll never find any truth on a place like that.”

Hi Ruby! Ruby/Rogue doesn’t like any version of this site because she repeatedly humiliated herself posting totally deranged things to defend Claremont and Ditko, then got outed as an inveterate liar who carried water for not one but two incredibly repulsive sexual predators. One of the people she defended later harassed her, leading to HAM’s founding. (It was fine when other people were victims, but a member of the in-group was too far.) (The harassment, for the record, was her deciding she wasn’t going to TS with Claremont anymore and Claremont rescinding everything he’d let her do because he was TSing with her. The most egregious example being, he took a jet pack off of Lara Croft’s sheet. This was, I’m not joking, the last straw.)

I don’t know who Scott was on UH, but on HAM he’s a former staffer who’s an insane bore, tantrums at the mildest pushback, refuses to interact with anyone playing a villain, whines non-stop about people not wanting to do things with him (I wonder why), and is why the Fantastic Four are all pushing 70 but have absolutely no canon attached to them (because he wanted Reed Richards to have been Batman’s math tutor.)

[Prototart]

@Prototart

All the UH stuff remains documented in the old MSB thread, by the way.

https://musoapbox.net/topic/1522/united-heroes-mush-from-the-tri-state-area-to-the-stars-marvel-dc-other8

Or feel free to just look at all of Rogue’s increasingly whacked posts,

https://musoapbox.net/user/roguepotato