Don’t forget we moved!
https://brandmu.day/
Bannings
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@hobos I don’t accept apologies for lying that include continuing to lie. A foible, perhaps.
let it be a challenge to you
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To @Roz:
Regarding Macha, she says she did not mean to get farfalla banned, just warned. And farfalla was unbanned.I actually don’t believe that Macha didn’t mean to get Farfalla banned. Ganymede specifically mentioned to someone in DMs that Macha “warned her” that people would be white knighting on Farfalla’s behalf.
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@Third-Eye Pretty sure he is talking about me. I was not banned in the first wave. I was very not cool with the unbanning process, and they self-high fiving each other for making it a more positive place through the power of censorship and dictatorship uses of fear and power.
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@BloodAngel It was this person. I recognize that icon!
Anyway, reiterating, VulgarKitten said she was sorry in a very large post that was followed by five pages of people attacking her. Is it any wonder she didn’t want to go back to MSB, and actually swore off it in her post? Yeah, she felt safe enough to go back once some people were banned. But that doesn’t mean there is nobody left who doesn’t remember what she did. I guess the people left are just more understanding about it, mostly. Or maybe the new forum rules are just stopping people from being needlessly cruel.
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@hobos I don’t accept apologies for lying that include continuing to lie. A foible, perhaps.
Big true.
I love that people act like lying isn’t a big deal but there’s lying and lying. I mean, me telling my dad I didn’t drink any of his alcohol when I was 16 and he was away for a weekend is a lie but it’s totally different from the rampant manipulative shit that goes on in MUdom.
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@hobos Ah, the big post where she said she was sorry but that it wasn’t her fault it was everyone else’s fault, and really she was the victim.
Maybe she should have split those up so that the apology didn’t get lost.
fr fr
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@BloodAngel It was this person. I recognize that icon!
MYSTERY SOLVED.
Genuine thanks for clearing this up, one and all. And, yeah, that wasn’t someone banned in the first wave and unbanned and rebanned, that was just a ban.
I want something else to get me through this
Semi-charmed kinda life, baby, baby
I want something else, I'm not listening when you say good-byeShe/Her or They/Them
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@Third-Eye Of course. I have no issues embracing my crazy. (For miss type edit)
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@BloodAngel: Hah. Can’t be mad at you for that.
@Selira: Yes, nobody has to accept an apology. But forgiveness is still more freeing than holding ten-year-old grudges in a small community. And the main argument being made was that she never even apologized – but yes, she did.
Anyway this is going too fast for me to stay in. I wish you all the best, and hope old wounds can be healed without scars. Our hobby’s very small. It’d be nice to be able to be friends and forgive each other and direct our empathy to each other.
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@hobos To be honest it depends on the damage. Sometimes it’s not freeing, sometimes it leads to more damage to the victim. Not everything is black and white in this world. So, don’t judge or tell others what to do with their abusive stories or feelings. Allow them to exist in the hurt that they feel, and maybe in the end they will forgive. But it’s no one place to ask about this or force or lead them to water.
Whatever fucking metaphor you wish in this case. You are doing more harm to yourself and others by trying to stick up for Vulgarkitten. I understand you are friends, and I respect your willingness to go to bat for them. But, in the end, it is madness to expect a new result from this, I have seen you do this song and dance a few times with the same partners it might be time to move on.
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@hobos Ah, the big post where she said she was sorry but that it wasn’t her fault it was everyone else’s fault, and really she was the victim.
Maybe she should have split those up so that the apology didn’t get lost.
The big post where @Testament said she would be back in 4 months but it was only 2 LOL.
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@hobos Forgiveness can be freeing, but forgiveness also doesn’t mean opening yourself up to continued abuse, and that’s a pretty clear distinction. It’s also not a moral imperative. It is, in fact, so difficult that there are whole holidays devoted to facilitating it and trying to move on, and that people who are especially capable of it are deemed practically divine.
Letting forgiveness make you vulnerable is one of the classic things I’ve seen get good people trapped in dangerous and deadly cycles of abuse.
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Yes, nobody has to accept an apology. But forgiveness is still more freeing than holding ten-year-old grudges in a small community.
Please don’t do that. Don’t act like forgiveness is an act of enlightenment. It’s not: it’s a choice that a person makes after considering whether the act would reap greater benefits than it costs to withhold. I feel the only way anyone can present forgiveness as a categorical good is if they have never had to calculate whether forgiveness would put them into unsafe positions.
It’d be nice to be able to be friends and forgive each other and direct our empathy to each other.
Friends respect boundaries. If Vulgar Kitten wants to be anyone’s friend (as opposed to you wanting everyone else to be Vulgar Kitten’s friend, for what reason I can’t even guess), then she is welcome to attempt to earn it by respecting people’s boundaries and offering the acts of contrition they would find convincing. If she’s not willing to do that, then that sucks, but two to tango and all that.
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Also Forgiveness != Forgetting about bad behavior, nor should it.
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@hobos Ah, the big post where she said she was sorry but that it wasn’t her fault it was everyone else’s fault, and really she was the victim.
Maybe she should have split those up so that the apology didn’t get lost.
The big post where @Testament said she would be back in 4 months but it was only 2 LOL.
Oh, that post.
ETA: To note, @hellfrog mentioned this earlier and I wasn’t sure what they were referring to initially and I wondered what I had said. Since, y’know, I’m now slightly paranoid about things I have said recently.
I now have clarity.
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@hobos I haven’t been subjected to anything VulgarKitten, as far as I know. Her ‘apology’ came off as more ‘I’m the victim’ to me as well. I try not to hold things against people (I can’t say I am always successful about it, probably am not most of the time. Thus ‘try’ being a keyword.), especially when they were angry/hurt/out for vengeance. Bad feels make a lot of bad actions. So, for all I know VK could have been acting out on her bad feels. I know nothing but what I saw on MSB.
As many of the people said she made the choice to sneak back on a game she claims to have had very little fun on due to X reasons. She made the choice to hide it. Her actions and way of saying things is what has people upset.
I’m not a fan of 'you have to beg for forgiveness but I do believe, like with trust, it needs to be earned. She broke peoples trusts and hurt people and made a post that very much sounded like everyone wronged her.
/My/ experience with this group is they often hold grudges for a long, very long, time but at least /try/ to give benefits of the doubt, even against people they don’t like at all. Also, that they often act in chained reactions. For example, Rucket (using him because I know him) gets upset at someone and gets into an altercation with that person. His friends get upset he’s upset and get involved. It gradually spirals in lots of people expressing their feels, on both sides. Which is very much what I think happened with the stuff on MSB involving Derp as admin and farfella being banned.
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@hobos I will give an honest take on this. You speak of forgiveness. I’m an advocate of people being given another chance. I’ve said in the past that this hobby has a tendency of being blind when it comes to who they do and do not ostracize. A good number of times, it’s right, and people like Cullen, Azazel, DWOPP, VasSpider, etc are not, nor should they be tolerated.
In situations where someone is marked for shunning that, yes, made a mistake or two, but has tried their best to make amends to change for the better and as a person? Those people I’ve seen be accepted by the very people who were against them. But that’s the thing, you have to actually show you want to improve. Saying sorry can only do so much, and only go so far. You want to be believed? Then you’re going to have to put effort into the statement. And that’s just how it is in RL as it is here
VK saying that she’s sorry, vanishing for two months, then coming back under a different name after people were banned doesn’t strike me as having learned a lesson. Maybe she will, maybe she won’t, that’s not my place to judge. Point is, she hasn’t done anything to warrant being offered another opportunity, because again, she hasn’t done anything to show otherwise.
