Bailey Fork

[bailey]

@Twinkle said in Bailey Fork:

@bailey Here is the thing, when someone tells you that you’re making them uncomfortable, it’s not where you go to other people to get validation about whether or not you were in the right. When you make someone uncomfortable, you apologize and you stop doing what makes them uncomfortable. You do not start explaining why you are right, and continue to do it with that person or other people. That is where I think the issue is here.

Oh, for sure. 100% agree.

Just to clarify chronology a bit here, I was receiving (unprompted) feedback from other players during the scene that they found it funny and entertaining. That’s what I was referring to above. I didn’t seek out any validation had and no idea at the time that anyone was upset by it. Everyone seemed to be enjoying the scene, and my character was just comments like “Objectively speaking, he is a rather aesthetically appealing Terran specimen.” and “You removed (your shirt) in an effort to attract the attention of females, I presumed, in a primitive display of coloration.”

It was not until several weeks later that I received any OOC comment from SM at all about anything of the RP, at which point I immediately ceased RPing with or about that character at SM’s request without argument or seeking external opinion. I even had to push off another character OOCly who brought up conversation about that character’s doings to respect that, because I wanted to make sure I was adhering to SM’s request.

Ultimately, I stopped logging into the game shortly after that conversation (not making any kind of dramatic exit or anything, I just stopped logging in) until another player pinged me on Discord and told me that they missed my RP. That’s when I made a brief return, played in a scene or two, and ultimately left because the last thing I wanted to do was make anyone uncomfortable.

I don’t really want to keep going back and forth on this, because I’ve clearly had my takeaways here and lessons to apply in the future, and I don’t want to subject anyone else to dissection this drama, but I did want to clarify that point. If someone asks me to change gears, I change gears, and I don’t ask questions as to why.

No one individual’s RP or story should ever cross into a point where it bothers another player. Period.

[bailey]

@SpottedCow said in Bailey Fork:

The situation as described in the reply to @jumpscare is twisted and unbalanced. The problem was not that it was one scene, the problem became that all RP eventually was twisted and angled to those types of jokes about a single specific character.

I think honestly a lot of the issue is that you get so wrapped up in the idea of what //you// feel would be interesting and dramatic that you forget it’s a cooperative setting. That RP should be fun for everyone involved. When even the players involved in that story no longer wanted to talk about it you kept pushing.

I think that’s a fair assessment of what happened. I had not realized to what extent it was occurring or to what extent it appeared to be focused on a character, but looking back I could see how it may have gone on longer than it had to. I was playing out the role of an annoyed and over-protective father (in the context, he knew he was dying and it saddened him as much as he felt emotions (the alien race was somewhat Vulcan-like) that the man he thought would take care of his daughter after he died was turning his back on her), and probably should have just stepped back and let things die.

It was hard to detach that from the mindset of the character, although I should have sensed that and overruled that as a player for greater consideration of the other players involved. But I did as soon as it was mentioned to me OOCly.

I appreciate the comment on my RP - I’d like to think I am a decent role player, and certainly want to avoid anything resembling creeper tendencies. In this case, with the broader context of SM’s lingering discomfort from a previously floated background idea, I can totally see in hindsight how it was interpreted that way.

[Cobalt]

@bailey Hey, while I appreciate that you are no longer @'ing them, but could you please stop bringing up SockMonkey in every one of your replies? At this point it kinda seems like you are fixated on them for some reason.

[shit-piss-love]

Now that I’ve come around on the To Catch a Creeper aspect of this forum I find it hilarious every time one comes in here thinking they are going to rehab their image. Like I am sure this stuff works on randos in the MU* community but this is not the place where you’re gonna sell people on “it was just a joke bro” on sheer word count.

[bailey]

Fair enough. I was just answering points that were raised, but I’m happy to see this having run its course. Last thing I want to do is cause anyone any more trauma.

I took ownership for the things I needed to take ownership for and clarified the things I wanted to clarify.

This has been fruitful in the sense that I appreciate the feedback. It helps me to understand what happened and what I can do differently in the future if I decide to continue in the hobby.

I appreciate everyone’s contributions and what they have pointed out.

Thanks, and happy MUSHing all.

Cheers.

[Meg]

man, i don’t even RP anymore, but man, was that a guy who did not take ownership of his shit.

[Coin]

@Meg said in Bailey Fork:

man, i don’t even RP anymore, but man, was that a guy who did not take ownership of his shit.

But @Meg, he appreciates the feedback and he’s going to work on himself.

[Nobody 0]

@Coin We done him wrong, it’s the same old song forever.

[shit-piss-love]

But y’all he refuted every single issue perfectly.

Sexual creepiness? How could that be possible when the character is asexual?

Smear campaigns? That was just me checking with people to make sure the joke was obvious (everyone totally thought it was btw).

Look blockheads, if someone can articulately discuss all of the things they did wrong once called on them by others you should just forgive them and lower your guard. If someone has an answer for everything they are accused of, that’s how you know they are being completely legit. If, like an anime ninja, they are swatting everything out of the air with long-winded, meandering explanations that’s how you can be be super duper sure you’re dealing with someone that has real contrition in their hearts. You might think the indicator would be like, contrite acceptance alone, but nope. They gotta have those explanations that excuse their behavior or it’s not for real. It’s the excusing. The excuses.

[Pavel]

@Meg

[hellfrog]

in all that word salad, the thing that stuck out to me the most was:

I got banned because headwiz asked me my opinion on a conflict and I said I thought they were both in the wrong.

i just FEEL like maybe we weren’t getting the WHOLE story or even PART of the story and definitely not a TRUE part of the story

[Apos]

@bailey said in Bailey Fork:

is referring to was a socially awkward alien character making general confused comments about humans in an attempt by me as a player to be funny

I am certain someone out there has made a character like this work to more than just their friends but I don’t recall having seen it and would always say do not do this. The unfrozen caveman/alien confused by your quaint ways/stranger in a strange land is basically always awful and I’m not sure how many talks I’ve given to players of ‘your weirdo shit is not as charming as you think it is and/or you are creeping them out’ but it’s too many and almost all of them wound up banned.

There are some tropes that sounds great but just don’t.

[Warma Sheen]

@Apos said in Bailey Fork:

There are some tropes that sounds great but just don’t.

I don’t remember being sexually creeped out by E.T. or Alf or many other alien “your human ways are strange” tropes I’ve seen.

It isn’t the trope. Its the way the player plays the trope. If the only way someone can play this trope is to include sexual references that can possibly make people sexually uncomfortable, that’s because of who someone is as player and as a person.

Trying to use that trope as an excuse is thin and does not hold up to any type of scrutiny. There’s a billion things about humans that are strange that have nothing to do with sexuality or body parts. If someone goes there, its is because they want to and are perfectly fine with the fact that it might make someone else uncomfortable.

[Pavel]

@Apos said in Bailey Fork:

The unfrozen caveman/alien confused by your quaint ways/stranger in a strange land is basically always awful

I’ve definitely done it before (think vampire awoken after centuries/millennia trying to get to grips with the modern world), but it was more focused on the details of modern life and technology rather than not understanding consent or morality.

eg: I played a Roman whose only nearly not-progressive thing was that he had trouble with non-binary people. Not in that they exist, totally on board with that idea, he just couldn’t figure out how to describe them in Latin - since it’s a gendered language. Details.

[shit-piss-love]

It’s fine as long as you’re not using it to play “oh does my not knowing established social mores trigger you?”

[Pavel]

@shit-piss-love Agreed. “Neat, this isn’t how I usually do things, but to better fit in I will do this new thing.” It’s not hard.

If you make a character who is intentionally incapable of interacting with people within acceptable modern cultural standards, you fucked up.

[Jennkryst]

@Pavel said in Bailey Fork:

@Apos said in Bailey Fork:

The unfrozen caveman/alien confused by your quaint ways/stranger in a strange land is basically always awful

I’ve definitely done it before (think vampire awoken after centuries/millennia trying to get to grips with the modern world), but it was more focused on the details of modern life and technology rather than not understanding consent or morality.

eg: I played a Roman whose only nearly not-progressive thing was that he had trouble with non-binary people. Not in that they exist, totally on board with that idea, he just couldn’t figure out how to describe them in Latin - since it’s a gendered language. Details.

Honestly, missed opportunity to point out all the ancient cultures they traded with back in the day that had non-binary folks in their religions. ‘Yes, they are just like my good friend Curzon!’

[Pavel]

@Jennkryst said in Bailey Fork:

@Pavel said in Bailey Fork:

@Apos said in Bailey Fork:

The unfrozen caveman/alien confused by your quaint ways/stranger in a strange land is basically always awful

I’ve definitely done it before (think vampire awoken after centuries/millennia trying to get to grips with the modern world), but it was more focused on the details of modern life and technology rather than not understanding consent or morality.

eg: I played a Roman whose only nearly not-progressive thing was that he had trouble with non-binary people. Not in that they exist, totally on board with that idea, he just couldn’t figure out how to describe them in Latin - since it’s a gendered language. Details.

Honestly, missed opportunity to point out all the ancient cultures they traded with back in the day that had non-binary folks in their religions. ‘Yes, they are just like my good friend Curzon!’

Way outside my wheelhouse and his, unfortunately.

[Twinkle]

@bailey said in Bailey Fork:

@Meg said in Macha Awareness (And Unappreciation) thread:

ok but like ??? @bailey still didn’t post the log that would exonerate them with OldFlame?

Show me the logs of the bad stuff you’re accused on that exonerate you, not just your recap that could be or couldn’t be lies/massaged ‘truth’ based on what staff decided.

ETA: And I think it is TELLING by the way, bailey. TELLING. That you posted the staff log but not the logs asked for. The staff log says nothing except your side, where you refused to give a log, as accused, and then got banned.

I mean, I could, but I’ve already pretty much admitted here that it’s likely that there I was not communicating as well as I thought I had, so I’m not sure there is a ton of value to that (particularly since it discusses other players who were not involved in this and things that happened on another game) since I am not trying to establish or defend any actions at this point on The Pack.

This happened a few months ago, I made my peace with it, and had moved on. I only climbed back in now because if it this is the sort of thing that is going to keep coming up whenever someone feels like punching at me, I’d rather set the record straight.

I don’t think it’s appropriate to air someone else’s dirty laundry in public if they aren’t involved in the situation, but I would have shared it with Feli if she wanted it to make a decision about her game and what was happening on her game. There’s no reason to now, because she made her decision, I accepted it, and that was that. I truly meant it when I said I didn’t want to cause drama on her game, and was content to leave at that point that I offered it.

And maybe it’s semantics, but what I said was that I felt funny providing alt-revealing things, and then asked if it was being suggested that I did something I shouldn’t have. If I had realized that was the accusation, I might have been quicker to suggest sharing the log with Feli as a wiz, but the impression I got from the conversation was that it wasn’t necessary and wasn’t being further asked for. So I don’t take any of that as being that I “refused”. You could say my reluctance to do so now on here is a “refusal”, and probably more fair, but honestly I don’t think that defending my reputation, such as it is, to people who weren’t involved in the situation outweighs digging up dirt on ANOTHER drama on ANOTHER game that I wasn’t involved with, when none of those players involved are part of this conversation.

If you want to take that as some kind of admission of my guilt, I mean, I can’t really stop you or argue you from that.

@bailey said in Macha Awareness (And Unappreciation) thread:

@DrQuinn said in Macha Awareness (And Unappreciation) thread:

Wait so is bailey Ruiz?

I need a flow chart.

No. I was neither Macha nor Ruiz.

I was a player who was banned from The Pack because I set up a background former romance with Female A who said it should not be a present day romance, and then got upset when my character showed an interest in Female B in the present.

I have a whole thread unto my own, though, separate from this, but have been told repeatedly that responding to people who ask questions or make references to me is bad form, so this is my last response to anything at all.

(Unless someone actually wants to see the logs and draw their own independent conclusion about the “timelines”, but I’d do that on my own thread so as not to cause any more confusion.)

I’m getting very mixed signals here.

[bailey]

Since it’s been brought up enough, and I’ll stick to my own thread, here’s the page log from The Pack. It doesn’t go back to the beginning of the conversation due to time passage, and after the player requested switching to Discord I did, and so any further OOC communication was there. I’ll note that I specifically disclosed prior history to the player as soon as I recognized her Discord handle, so I wasn’t trying to hide anything.

I’ll summarize before the start of the page convo - we were in the “hook establishing” phase. Her character was a country singer who was a single mom, mine was a rodeo star. We talked about the idea of them having met up while both on the road a few years back. Did a scene, then she suggested that maybe they had a fling on the tour. And then floated the idea to me that my PC would be the father of her PC’s daughter, which she had yet to really determine parentage for. I said I’d consider it based around how the RP went because that’s pretty weighty, and we both felt each other out in some subsequent scenes.

What’s missing from right before the start of the log is some more of her asserting what I reference later as her wanting to “keep her options open” because it was a new game, and she wanted to take some time to decide who she wanted to do a romance plot with. You can see some statements throughout this conversation though referencing back to that.

At the end of the day, the Discord log has much of the same conversation - these two characters had an established past romance that led to story in the present about how both of them look regretfully towards the past and “what could have been”.

Anyway, enough editorializing. I’ll let folks draw the rest of their conclusions if they want to read it.

Ok, getting told it is too many characters, so I’ll try in its own post, and if not, figure out how to do it some other way.