Suspected Superhero Creeping Or Something

[TNP]

@Taika Empire State Heroes.

[Kestrel]

@Runescryer said in DWOPP-spotting:

Or would you rather that everyone just stay silent and ignore the potential of someone acting sus and letting them keep doing what they’re doing?

I would not rather this.

For what it’s worth, @Runescryer, I believe you, and appreciate you expressing your discomfort and outlining your experiences to the community at large.

[Meg]

@Kestrel where was the outline of his experience, though? like, maybe i am missing it but like-- i don’t see any actual posts about the behaviors that were seen. what toxic behavior?

i guess i vaguely remember allusions to his character buying things for other people with fake IC money. if that’s a toxic behavior, well, i guess i am toxic too. i once had a character donate six-figures to a charity in tez’s character’s name. also my character had a castle.

ETA: i am just not giving someone credit for coming and saying ‘this person might be DWOPP’ without even writing out the toxic behaviors that they were exhibiting. you don’t get credit for saying ‘hey there’s possibly charles manson at that party’, without even expressing all of the reasons to be concerned about possible charles manson, like you noticed he was carrying around a knife and high on drugs, or something.

[Kestrel]

@Runescryer said in DWOPP-spotting:

All of this behavior from you started when Betsy spurned your advances in RP; the billionaire pissing contest, the whispers about Betsy in the X-Sphere, the sudden idea of creating the Champions.

@Runescryer detailed their experiences in the post linked above, and a few others have gone to some lengths trying to pick apart @Lithium’s approach to in-game flirting over on the MSB thread.

I don’t really want to do that, because I think I’ll feel a bit like trying to explain to people how your friend Rob Zombie really meant to say the word “bitch”, in an anecdote you gave a while ago. It’s often difficult enough for people to specify exactly how someone has made them uncomfortable, and it would be doubly hard for me to try and do so on their behalf as a third-party observer.

Instead, I would like to summarise the following sentiments I’ve seen expressed on this topic so far:

1. Lithium is not DWOPP
2. Runescryer is kind of a jerk
3. Lithium is kind of a creep

And I would like to note that although they’re being expressed by opposing “teams”, so to speak, none of these sentiments are, in fact, mutually exclusive.

This isn’t to say that the people who deem there to be more evidence for #1 & #2 are wrong to rule out #3 on that basis; my own personal biases lead me to more willingly accept it, and that’s often all anyone has to go on outside of a courtroom setting.

I think that @Runescryer’s choice to try and state their case on a board they knew in advance would be less likely to believe them, and more likely to be hostile to them, shows a modicum of integrity; it gets some credit from me. I also think that while accusing someone of being Charles Manson is a bit mean, it’s probably less mean and considerably more understandable if they were covered in blood and brandishing a knife at you. I don’t really care about defending people over mistaken identity hurt if they were exhibiting behaviours which would reasonably lead someone to suspect it to be the case.

[Meg]

@Kestrel said in DWOPP-spotting:

And I would like to note that although they’re being expressed by opposing “teams”, so to speak, none of these sentiments are, in fact, mutually exclusive.

I absolutely believe this. I don’t think they are mutually exclusive, and I have heard from many people that I know and trust that Lithium is a creep.

After I posted this, people pointed out the Jean/Warren scene as the primary example of this behavior, and I admit, I had skimmed over that and hadn’t really read it while focusing on other things. That is my bad, and that scene does show some bad behavior. I do wish we had more examples like that, especially with Lithium claiming that it was asked for by Jean.

(Which, I do not believe. I don’t believe someone speaking for someone else like that, because it could have just as easily been something like Lithium bugging OOCly about shipping their characters and Jean just finally going ‘well, flirt more IC! We’ll see how it goes!’ to let them down easy.)

[Selira]

The Jean scene was very reminiscent of my own experiences, and I can also personally back up the claim of “gaslighting people after IC rejection” being a thing.

[Lucidmoon]

I tried to make an account on the other forum where my rp was posted up, but it wouldn’t let me make one.

I am the Jean in that scene, and I just wanted to come here and say that I didn’t have a problem with Warren-player during the short time that they were on Infinite Adventures.

I did not feel gaslit by things that happened because the player of Warren reached out to discuss things in advance. Any time I said I was not comfortable about something they ceased immediately. Context is important, I was playing a very awkward character who did not have a lot of luck with romantic things going on around her.

I do not want to invalidate any issues that others have had with this person, but in my case, I was always treated kindly and with respect. I did let Jupiter know that when I was asked, but I will admit that I was completely spooked when there were mentions of DWOPP, and that drama along with various others were why I dropped that character.

[Meg]

@Lucidmoon hey, thank you for coming to provide some context. I know I expressed some disbelief about Warren-player saying the flirting was asked for, but that’s only because I definitely have seen the example I posted done before and then claimed as ‘hey, they wanted this storyline!’.

I think any of us would be freaked out with claims that an RP partner might be a known sexual predator and want to drop out of the character and drama of that. Sorry this happened to you.

[Lucidmoon]

@Meg You guys are welcome. I know that people have not had good experiences with this player, but that wasn’t the case for me. Comic book games seem to be a breeding ground for drama, there has been quite a bit here, but I’m hoping that it dies down now.

[Pavel]

@Lucidmoon said in DWOPP-spotting:

there has been quite a bit here, but I’m hoping that it dies down now

[Pyrephox]

@Pavel Let them dream!

[Pavel]

@Pyrephox said in DWOPP-spotting:

@Pavel Let them dream!

What part of my entire online persona would suggest I support dreaming?

[Lithium]

@Meg said in DWOPP-spotting:

After I posted this, people pointed out the Jean/Warren scene as the primary example of this behavior, and I admit, I had skimmed over that and hadn’t really read it while focusing on other things. That is my bad, and that scene does show some bad behavior. I do wish we had more examples like that, especially with Lithium claiming that it was asked for by Jean.

(Which, I do not believe. I don’t believe someone speaking for someone else like that, because it could have just as easily been something like Lithium bugging OOCly about shipping their characters and Jean just finally going ‘well, flirt more IC! We’ll see how it goes!’ to let them down easy.)

There is a posted Log of the Scene in which Jean ICly asks Warren if they can be more flirty. It was prior to the scene in which I am being a supposed creep.

Just because I have had some incidents in the past that have not been favorable does not mean I have not learned, and changed, I would hope that nobody here still plays exactly the same they did 30 years ago, 20, 10, or even 5 or 1.

We grow, we change, I see lots of talk about people getting opportunities to change, and yet, nobody wants to believe that I cannot have made sure things were cool OOCly with people before starting up any sort of romantic RP, or how I must have been gaslighting people when I try to make sure everyone is comfortable in RP all the time.

That’s really hard.

Really hard.

I’ve been playing still for years and yet, all it takes is one person to get butthurt and make crazy accusations that are unsupported by reality and…

Yeah.

Thank you too the few people who wanted actual proof before nailing me to the cross, and thank you to the few who did step up about how I am not the Charles Manson of the MU*'ing community.

[Pavel]

I think the takeaway here is that I should always use Charles Manson in my analogies whenever I want to actually say Hitler. It seems to catch on.

[Meg]

@Lithium look, I’m not gonna go digging through RP for a game I don’t play. Sorry. I said what I said and I stand by it. The whole sum of what I said was that there was some bad behavior (pushy flirting) in the scene and that I didn’t necessarily believe anyone who speaks for someone else. Because the example that I listed as why /has happened/. Because communication between RPers is not always the clearest and a lot of people avoid direct confrontation.

I do, however, believe it now that Jean-player has spoken up. And again, I say I wish that there were more examples of your supposed bad behavior, because if the flirting was talked about OOC and wanted, well, that definitely puts a different spin on it. So, I’d be curious for receipts on your bad behavior on this game, versus just bad behavior in the past.

I do appreciate that you came with receipts of Runescryer being a big ol’ fucking jerk to you, tho. A+. That guy immediately went crying to the forum that he is an admin on while trying to get you kicked off a game after IC/OOC conflict. Not a great look.

[Kestrel]

@Lithium said in DWOPP-spotting:

Just because I have had some incidents in the past that have not been favorable does not mean I have not learned, and changed, I would hope that nobody here still plays exactly the same they did 30 years ago, 20, 10, or even 5 or 1.
We grow, we change, I see lots of talk about people getting opportunities to change, and yet, nobody wants to believe that I cannot have made sure things were cool OOCly with people before starting up any sort of romantic RP, or how I must have been gaslighting people

I’ve been playing still for years and yet, all it takes is one person to get butthurt and make crazy accusations that are unsupported by reality and…

[Pavel]

@Lithium said in DWOPP-spotting:

We grow, we change

We do, but we also make judgements based on what we know about people. If people were to judge me as I am now based on what I used to be like, with my past as their only frame of reference, they wouldn’t be wrong for making such a judgement.

Yes, fresh evidence should change minds, but that evidence is required before the mind-changing can happen. One should aspire to change for themselves and be marginally less concerned with how others perceive them. If the change is true, it’ll eventually be noticed and alter those perceptions. Eventually.

It’s hard, absolutely, but warranted.

[Third Eye]

@Pavel said in DWOPP-spotting:

I think the takeaway here is that I should always use Charles Manson in my analogies whenever I want to actually say Hitler. It seems to catch on.

It’s an alternative to invoking Godwin that appeals to me greatly and I shall adopt it in my own flaming work.

[Pavel]

@Third-Eye said in DWOPP-spotting:

@Pavel said in DWOPP-spotting:

I think the takeaway here is that I should always use Charles Manson in my analogies whenever I want to actually say Hitler. It seems to catch on.

It’s an alternative to invoking Godwin that appeals to me greatly and I shall adopt it in my own flaming work.

I was also going to go with the Zodiac Killer, but I try not to talk about political figures.

[Coin]

@Third-Eye said in DWOPP-spotting:

@Pavel said in DWOPP-spotting:

I think the takeaway here is that I should always use Charles Manson in my analogies whenever I want to actually say Hitler. It seems to catch on.

It’s an alternative to invoking Godwin that appeals to me greatly and I shall adopt it in my own flaming work.

You’re just going to end up creating Pavel’s Corollary.