Making it Easier to Nope Out (or should we?)

[L. B. Heuschkel]

@Pavel It’s definitely a case-by-case thing. And it’s definitely alright to ask if the spiders can be skeletons instead if it makes no big difference. You just also have to accept that if it does in fact make a big difference, then maybe this is simply not a scene you should be in.

And that’s okay. You’re allowed to nope out without it being a statement. Sometimes, stuff just doesn’t work for you.

[Pavel]

@L-B-Heuschkel We definitely need to get comfortable with, as staff and players, the idea that not all games are for all people.

Games are gonna exist with themes and concepts that I cannot abide, and that’s just going to have to be okay with me. Even if I’ve invested hours in making a character and playing, and it turns out I misunderstood something. I can’t sunk-cost my way into forcing a change onto the game.

[Duke Whisky]

I guess in that specific example it is about reasonable adjustments. Could you reasonably adjust a cave diving scene to not include spiders? Yeah, with ease.

Could you reasonably adjust a class in Spider Hugging 101? Nope, kinda needed.

[L. B. Heuschkel]

@Pavel said in Making it Easier to Nope Out (or should we?):

@L-B-Heuschkel We definitely need to get comfortable with, as staff and players, the idea that not all games are for all people.

Games are gonna exist with themes and concepts that I cannot abide, and that’s just going to have to be okay with me.

Agreed. From what I’ve seen over time, the most successful games are the ones that don’t try to be for everyone and don’t try to do everything.

Turns out that to please everyone you have to compromise so much that the storyline suffers – and to do everything and cover everything, you need so many active hands and warm bodies that burn-out becomes a very real issue.

I’ve often thought that the notion that we have to cater to everyone’s needs is misunderstood inclusivity. We want to make a place where everyone feels welcome. But that does not equate making a place where everyone want to be. It ‘only’ means that our doors are open to anyone who’s interested in the specific thing we made.

[Testament]

I won’t lie, my game has very dark and borderline depressing themes. It’s meant to be dark fantasy and horror for a reason(and not at all because it’s partially an outlet for my more depressive feelings that I can express in a healthy way). It’s meant to be a struggle, but it’s meant to be a struggle in good way to show that there are things worth struggling against. And yes, there’s some RL analogues here to try and inspire players that if your character can struggle for a better tomorrow in apocalyptic situation, then so can you. To imply it’s the mush version of Dark Souls is a large stretch, but elements and themes of struggle in Dark Souls is what I’m inspired by. And I want my players so too to feel inspired.

But I’m not going to make anyone play in something that they just want to “Nope, I just can’t.” and I’ll do my damnedest to try and make it so you don’t have to. Everyone has limits and I do my best to respect what those limits are. Obviously there are themes that are not touched on that go without saying(SA, anything to do with children, etc).

I know it’s not going to please everyone, and if you try to please everyone you’ll end up pleasing no one. So I try for something different. If I can’t please everyone, then I will try my best to accommodate everyone.

[GF]

@IoleRae said in Making it Easier to Nope Out (or should we?):

To be fair, the only reason I even mentioned ‘using it to get around IC consequences’ is because trying to have this discussion almost always results in a ‘but somebody could CHEAT IT by PRETENDING to be upset’ derail. I haven’t seen somebody attempt to dodge consequences this way in a really, really, really long time.

In my TT game, I have adopted a policy of not bothering to check my players’ math any more, because if you* have so little going on in your life you need to cheat at pretending to be Gandalf, then I feel so sorry for you I’m inclined to let you have it.

I have similar feelings about cheating in MUing these days. If you’re so desperate to feel like you’ve won that you need to lie your way out of the consequences of your actions, then take your stolen win, and I hope it soothes whatever problems in your life led you to this point.

*general ‘you,’ not you personally

[Pavel]

@GF Unless and until it impacts the fun of other people, that’s basically where I’m at too.

[Jumpscare]

This is a good topic, especially for games with rougher themes, though every game should have a way to comfortably nope out.

Thanks @IoleRae for the shoutout. Now I can’t not go into detail about everything I’ve done so far, haha.

So, Silent Heaven has a horror theme. Since there are a handful of coded systems (such as IC conflict resolution), I’ve developed several layers of protection and ease for leaving a scene.

The first is the Blanket Consent List, outlined transparently in the game’s policies. It’s a list of 5 things that could happen to your character by playing in Silent Heaven. If you’re fine with all five, great! Welcome in. And if at any time you’re no longer comfortable with one of those, you can nope out of the game, no questions asked.

The next layer is the Optional Content Consent List. This is a customizable list of content you’re personally comfortable with having in your RP. The options in the list cover a broad range of categories, including creepy things like “living dolls,” or relationship stuff like “Romance with another PC,” or even “Severe weather.” Everything starts out as a NO until you customize your list, where you can set each item to Green (Yes!), Yellow (Ask in advance), Orange (Only okay as an FtB or reference only), or Red (NO). You can even change your mind partially through a scene that contains content you’ve marked as Green, no questions asked. Anyone disrespecting your list will not be tolerated.

The next layer is the standard OOC message that you want to exit a scene, even if it doesn’t have any heavy themes. (“This isn’t working out for me. Let’s stop, please.”) Again, this is honored, no questions asked. Even if your character has been kidnapped and interrogated and you feel like this isn’t a fun scene to play out, it’s the responsibility of the aggressor in the scene to come to an amicable resolution. And if they can’t, staff are one request away.

Speaking of, if you’re not comfortable with sending an OOC message to someone, there’s a command to send a DM to staff to help resolve it. I’m not afraid to show the door to people who are causing uncomfortable experiences, including staff. Especially staff.

To that, I strongly support OOC check-ins, which I covered here. In short: check in with your RP buddies OOCly to see where they are mentally and emotionally before things get heavy.

And lastly, on top of all that, you can PAUSE your game. Pausing puts your character into a metaphorical protective bubble where it’s impossible for anything to happen to them (e.g. the Blanket Five in the first layer, and so on). PAUSE lasts indefinitely, and you can just nope out, walk your dog, do what you need to for as long as you need to, and come back whenever you’re ready.

And that’s all! Each game is unique and may not benefit from all these layers of safety, but they’re each worth considering for your own games.

[IoleRae]

@Jumpscare

THANK YOU. I appreciate you humoring me putting you on the spot like that. Good stuff.

What are the five things on the Blanket Consent list? Do you mind me asking? If yes, no worries!

[Jumpscare]

@IoleRae

Sure!

So Silent Heaven is best described as a MUSH with coded elements. In order to allow players to run the stories they want to write without requesting ST oversight or filing +jobs for basic activities, I’ve put in a lot of effort to give ways for players and STs to take actions, while locking them down as tightly as possible so that they can’t spiral out of control.

From that, I came up with the Blanket Five, which are the only normal gameplay elements that can cause negative effects to your character, none of which are permanent.

All five of these comes with the caveat of “there needs to be a valid and unique RP reason for it.” There are additional restrictions and protections beyond what these overviews allow.

Additionally, there’s no coded way for a character to die, and in fact characters cannot die at all while in Silent Heaven, due to mysterious lore reasons.

The Blanket Five

1. Conflict. Using the conflict resolution system, a conflict has the potential to go sour and turn violent, meaning your character could be involved in combat. This could also involve them being knocked unconscious, or receiving a select few medical treatments while unconscious. (Side note: Being kidnapped is also a potential outcome, but you can nope out of that at any time.) No permanent damage occurs through any outcome of conflict.

Here’s a basic conflict example without combat. (I’m still working on coding combat and refining how conflict looks, haha.) Clyde wants the money he lent to Bonnie, and Bonnie tries twice to hide from Clyde before paying up.

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2. Poisons. Your character may be exposed to toxic substances, either through air ingesting poisoned food or drink, taking specific drugs, or via air dispersal. Though your character may have one hell of a trip, no permanent damage comes from being poisoned.

(I’m withholding a pic for this one out of respect for people who don’t want to see that kind of content.)

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3. Potshots. Gunshots from afar may graze or hit your character. Again, no permanent damage comes from this. To stop being shot at, all you need to do is relocate your character away from wherever the gunshots are coming from.

(No pic for this one! I’m still coding combat.)

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4. Eavesdropping. Around town, you’ll find windows to look through, places to hide, walls to listen through, and even disguises to wear. This means that those secret cult meetings might not be so secret.

In this example, Bonnie has combined her Deception skill with a disguise to appear as a totally new character to her friend Clyde:

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5. Final Plot. After reaching max XP, you have 3 months to wrap up any outstanding storylines and begin your character’s Final Plot, which will determine the ultimate fate of your character. STs help you reach a satisfying conclusion to your character’s stay in Silent Heaven. Character death can happen in a Final Plot, and you’re allowed to have other characters join you on your Final Plot. So if you want to end your character’s story early, joining a Final Plot is the perfect way to do it.

That’s all!

If the Blanket Five sound tame compared to the gamut of horror content, that’s intentional. Additional horror situations are locked down by default and can be enabled as you please through your consent checklist.

[IoleRae]

@Jumpscare

I have to say that your work in this area has changed my perspective pretty significantly about how possible that all of this is. It’s good stuff; thank you.

[Testament]

@Jumpscare said in Making it Easier to Nope Out (or should we?):

All that stuff that @Jumpscare wrote

Holy shit, I’m in love with all this. I love the non-combat conflict system. This isn’t being used in Ares by chance is it?

(I’m still working on coding combat and refining how conflict looks, haha.)

sobs in FS3 Trying to shove DnD mechanics into FS3 has been, well, I’m still frustrated, needless to say. I need to suck it up and ask @Roadspike for help with Seven Nations’s combat.

[Jumpscare]

@Testament said in Making it Easier to Nope Out (or should we?):

@Jumpscare said in Making it Easier to Nope Out (or should we?):

All that stuff that @Jumpscare wrote

Holy shit, I’m in love with all this. I love the non-combat conflict system. This isn’t being used in Ares by chance is it?

Thank you! (And thank you too @IoleRae!)

Unfortunately, no, it’s not in Ares. It’s in Evennia. I played Arx before I ever touched a single Ares game, so I looked into Evennia first and somehow didn’t turn the project into a smouldering heap of wreckage after a few months. Two years later, I’m almost done coding, haha. I never expected to have made it this far.