Numetal/Retromux
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@Pyrephox said in Numetal/Retromux:
So as soon as someone says, “Oh, I’m playing a difficult character,” or “I’m playing a character who will spark a lot of RP for others,” there’s sort of a full-body shudder and a lot of us think not this bullshit again.
It’s an immediate source of bleed for a lot of people even without any actual RP, especially the difficult character thing. The sparks RP people are probably 30/30/40 in my experience with the first 30 percent representing characters that actually do spark a lot of enjoyable RP for others, the second 30 percent being people who say that about their characters and then nothing happens at all, while the 40 percent are characters that basically create RP that nobody enjoys other than themselves, which I believe this Vincent that @Cygnus created falls into.
That said, from all of the stuff said over the past few days, it feels like the staff that were directly involved in the situation mishandled it so badly they basically had no choice but to pull the character because they missed all the chances to work with the players to repair the situation while that was still a possibility.
The staff also seems to have mishandled a situation with a harasser because the target of the harassment was another player that had built up a lot of bad blood (whether intentional or not). One player’s bad situation does not validate another’s bad actions.
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@MisterBoring said in Numetal/Retromux:
That said, from all of the stuff said over the past few days, it feels like the staff that were directly involved in the situation mishandled it so badly they basically had no choice but to pull the character because they missed all the chances to work with the players to repair the situation while that was still a possibility.
Honestly, it’s the kind of character that should’ve had some intense scrutiny during the approvals process. “It’s a character who sits between two groups who usually actively murder each other on sight? Let’s poke at it a bit more and get the measure of this person before we allow it.” It’s the same, or similar enough, as making a character designed to be a spy on the faction they’re in – I just straight up wouldn’t allow it, and neither would most games I’ve played on lately.
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@Pavel said in Numetal/Retromux:
Honestly, it’s the kind of character that should’ve had some intense scrutiny during the approvals process.
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Dude can we just appreciate how mans is trying to slowly create an Abomination out of scotch tape and silly putty but it’s not a Gary Stu
An abomination not as in my opinion but as in the official term for what you get when you make a werewolf a vampire
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@Pyrephox said in Numetal/Retromux:
But when someone does it every single time
For what it’s worth, I didn’t have these issues nearly as much with the Werewolves. They were actually way more accepting of the situation, Niall (Eddie’s alt) and Pika (A mage alt with spirit or whatever who was similarly unique) not withstanding. While Pika would whisper massassa or something at me, and Niall would do his general OOC/IC harassment, you know who was coolest? The full moon auspice shifters, bear shifter, and surprisingly, the viking wolf dudes who generally seemed to be killers in general. Had great RP with them and lots of the shifters.
I distinctly remember a super awesome and frankly emotional scene I had with the Sept leader where she cleansed me in the lake and accepted me, which was the first acceptance of my character on the game. Bringing people to the Garnet Spring that I trusted was awesome. Sparring with the Ventrue Primogen in the basement of the mansion was badass. Any one-on-one scene I had with Gangrel were likewise awesome.
The ‘bad scenes’ in question were generally Court, where the cool girls club would rally together and do their best to make me feel unwelcome and talk shit and expect no pushback whatsoever. It got so bad that eventually, I just started taking wolf form and literally saying nothing in court. But I’m sure those scenes where I had zero interaction are still on the list of how every scene I did I was ‘disruptive’.
My character was not always a jerk at all. I just didn’t bend to expectations, and made no apologies for who or what I was. THAT is what made people mad more than anything, and those reactions weren’t entirely in my control. For instance, how is a Tremere and Brujah Primogen (Eddie) demanding my blood for tests during the very first scene–and saying if I don’t, I’m not in ‘their’ Camarilla–my fault? Of course I said hell no. These people were immediately and violently confrontational and exclusionary.
But you know how it is. Do things that some people don’t like IC, and they say everything I did and the very fiber of my being of my character and me as a player is bad and should be harassed, I guess.
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@LeeRoyBatty Literally who cares? What, do I need to play the same Toreador that’s been apped a thousand times, with an occult bookstore or a bar, who just social RPs all the time about nothing? I play games like this for interesting and unique stories.
By these terms, any character who isn’t a cookie cutter app is a Gary Stu. I didn’t self insert a self-dealized version of myself into this shit, which is my understanding of a Gary Stu/Mary Sue. Generally those are like romance authors who make main characters that are sad, lonely authors who also know kung fu without training, but just want a man/woman to love them, or whatever.
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@Juniper said in Numetal/Retromux:
Is it normal to view unpleasant, controversial or “dumb” in-character behaviour this negatively? If a character causes trouble, is that considered subversive to the community or even rude? Is disruption and conflict not the bread and butter of telling stories together?
I’m seeing why this character might have been a problem to other characters, but I guess I don’t see why that means the OOC actor was a problem. Seems like a lot of bleed.
It was an immense amount of bleed. I’ve never seen it so bad at any other game, and I’ve played or staffed at most if not all of the big WoD MU*s over the years. It was bad enough that this game made at least 5 of the people I RPed with on that game quit MUSHing for good. RetroMUX is filled with people who think they can decide how you should RP, with whom you should RP, and staffers who don’t do anything when this sort of browbeating continuously happens.
Not to mention, if you spoke up about the bad behavior of staff, god forbid, you’d get instantly site-banned. Like what happened to the person who was outed as trans by Chaos. For those who say it didn’t happen, I’m sure he even mentioned it to me in pages, not just in the super secret shit talking discord they had. ‘Oh, by the way, this character who is female is played by a guy and I don’t like them, so don’t listen to their complaints’ is what I remember.
It’s not normal, it was an inordinate amount of abuse and toxicity, and in my view, people like Wyrmsign here are blowing how bad I was -way- out of proportion. I still fail to see how me sitting in court as a wolf for the majority of Courts, standing by the door looking angry, and walking out when it was done, is somehow so extremely disruptive. That was the majority of what I added to Court scenes, first and last court not included.
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@Cygnus said in Numetal/Retromux:
It was an immense amount of bleed. I’ve never seen it so bad at any other game, and I’ve played or staffed at most if not all of the big WoD MU*s over the years.
I would honestly believe that if you have been playing or staffing most of the big WoD MUs over the years, that you only recently started noticing bleed, or that you didn’t interact with it in your activities on those games. I’m almost 100% certain that every one of the big WoD MUs over the years has had a huge amount of unmitigated bleed.
Being unaware of bleed is not the same as bleed being non-existent.
Proud Member of the Pro-Mummy Alliance
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@Cygnus said in Numetal/Retromux:
@LeeRoyBatty Literally who cares? What, do I need to play the same Toreador that’s been apped a thousand times, with an occult bookstore or a bar, who just social RPs all the time about nothing? I play games like this for interesting and unique stories.
By these terms, any character who isn’t a cookie cutter app is a Gary Stu. I didn’t self insert a self-dealized version of myself into this shit, which is my understanding of a Gary Stu/Mary Sue. Generally those are like romance authors who make main characters that are sad, lonely authors who also know kung fu without training, but just want a man/woman to love them, or whatever.
Hahaaha well obviously, you, dude, evidence is in bothering to reply with an army of strawmen like “OH SO BECAUSE I’M NOT PLAYING A COOKIE CUTTER TOREADOR I’M THE PROBLEM? I THOUGHT THIS WAS AMERICA” - bro it’s not a dilemma between either “play a boring cookie-cutter character” or “play my unique snowflake” you can create a character which is both unique and balanced/respectful of the setting. Your character was sure as shit unique alright, but neither balanced nor respectful of the setting. I don’t mean mechanically balanced, I mean like, made with thought towards how your character was going to integrate into the themes of a VTM game.
Nobody said you can’t be creative. The critique is that your proprietary blend of Kinfolk + Gangrel + werewolf rites + Gifts is batshit nonsense that doesn’t belong in a Vampire game. That’s not ‘cookie cutter vs. unique,’ that’s just you trying to weld two incompatible splats together with a coathanger and a lighter and daring staff to say no.
Gary Stu doesn’t just mean ‘self-insert wish fulfillment’, it also means someone who warps the rules and narrative to make themselves The Specialest Special Boy. And if you still want to say NO I’M NOT A GARY STU BECAUSE TECHNICALLY THE DEFINITION I GOT FROM I’MRIGHT DOT COM SAYS THIS SHIT OVER HERE, it doesn’t change the fact that you leveraged the rules to make yourself The Specialest Special Boy. Pretty Unicorn Princess Palpatine trying to tape together a Kinfolk template + vampire template + werewolf powers and still argue it wasn’t special-pleading.
While it’s to a large extent on staff to recognize such an unplayable character cocnept on its face and give you guidance to tell you to play something else, and prior staff didn’t do that - that doesn’t change the fact that it’s a collaborative storytelling game where you share the spotlight and DON’T make yourself The Main Character Chosen One Pretty Unicorn Princess Palpatine Specialest Special Boy out of a general sense of social notdickery in a collaborative creative space because you can do this thing called ‘introspection’ and ‘self-awareness’ by doing things like maybe not fucking sitting around in elysium in wolf form???
Seriously who tf sits around in elysium in wolf form I’m fucking dying - that’s some peak “i’m not like other vampires” energy dude and you didn’t expect that to be reacted to???
Yeah, Gangrel can shift into animals but like - you don’t go padding into Elysium as a giant fuckin’ furry and flop down next to the Harpies like, “sup guys, don’t mind me, I’m just so unique and primal, I WANTED YOU TO KNOW THE TRUTH ABOUT ME”. You also don’t go into elysium with a weapon in general - and you’re making your body into more of a weapon than it is, it’s boundary testing bullshit, like, it makes as much sense as showing up to Elysium with a fucking shotgun strapped to your chest adn being like WELLL YOU KNOW I JUST WANTED YOU TO KNOW THE TRUTH ABOUT ME
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@MisterBoring When did I say I never saw it or dealt with it? Not sure how you got that out of the quote you pulled. I’m saying it was, by far, the worst on RetroMUX. Even old games like the Reach and Haunted Memories weren’t even close, and they weren’t great in those departments.
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@LeeRoyBatty said in Numetal/Retromux:
doesn’t belong in a Vampire game
Says you. I call bullshit on that. The merit ‘Supernatural Kinfolk’ means that the developers thought different.
Also, damn, you are triggered as fuck. Maybe go on a walk or something and think about how any of that word vomit you just posted justifies continuous OOC harassment for months on end, and the platforming/defense of problematic sex pests, staff favoritism, and all the other bad shit that has been revealed with receipts about this game.
‘Oh no, your character is a jerk, better make that the entire problem and ignore all the heinous shit staff did on this game!’ - you, basically
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Don’t listen to him @LeeRoyBatty , you’re making me cry laughing so hard over here with every post. POST MORE PLEASE.
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@bear_necessities bro watching this guy edit in real time seconds after saying “you’re triggered” is sending me
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You heard it here, folks. Receipts of bad staff behavior don’t matter, it’s also totally cool that staff hits on players in their DMs, outed trans people, and repeatedly lied in this thread. A gangrel took wolf form in Elysium and took a shifter merit, so let’s get him!
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@LeeRoyBatty Your takes are braindead, so enjoy yourself I guess. Simple pleasures for simple people
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@Cygnus said in Numetal/Retromux:
The merit ‘Supernatural Kinfolk’ means that the developers thought different.
The Supernatural Kinfolk means that the devs gave players toys, a niche connector merit, not a blank check. You’re just quote-mining mechanics. The fact that your character was a vampire kinfolk wasn’t the issue in the first place, just the first domino in the big ass soup of hilarity.
Also, damn, you are triggered as fuck. Maybe go on a walk or something and think about how any of that word vomit you just posted justifies continuous OOC harassment for months on end,
“You’re triggered” is just a lazy ad hominem / tone-policing move that tells me you can’t refute my points so you’re attacking my delivery of them.
and the platforming/defense of problematic sex pests, staff favoritism, and all the other bad shit that has been revealed with receipts about this game. ‘Oh no, your character is a jerk, better make that the entire problem and ignore all the heinous shit staff did on this game!’ - you, basically
Bro, sex pests, staff favoritism, and all the whataboutism - even if/where true, is irrelevant to the fact that it’s hilarious that you walked into Elysium in wolf form like THIS IS WHO I REALLY AM INSIDE, BELLA
Like dude all that shit flinging about staff tomfuckery is a separate issue, I’m just over here saying it’s hilarious you can’t admit that your character was very like, Super Special and you did some shit that was absolutely unhinged ICly like … telling the truth in a game specifically centered around controlling the truth is FUCKING FUNNY
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@Cygnus, my guy/gal/person… It’s very much not the concept itself that was the issue. Heck, there is a whole bloodline in NWOD that is basically kinfolk vampires. It was the way you apparently insisted on needing to be The Chosen One in not only one but TWO spheres and seem to have thrown tantrums when people didn’t fawn over how special and amazing your character was.
Like seriously, just read over your PRP pitch and tell me how that’s not your one last attempt to show that your character’s body was SO BAD ASS and your character’s spirit was SO SPECIALS.
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@LeeRoyBatty said in Numetal/Retromux:
THIS IS WHO I REALLY AM INSIDE, BELLA
ok. This made me laugh. LOL
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@catzilla I know it was cringe, but I posted that in response to a STAFFER here saying I wanted to build a special potion to become a human/shifter again. That is not what happened, I posted that to show that he was lying, not that I was a guy with all the best ideas LMAO
