@InkGolem I think it’s subtly different. You’ve got people who invest so much time and effort and therefore they meltdown horribly, but then you have those people who invest so much time and effort in order to engage in toxic behaviour.

@Gashlycrumb The worst part of some of the more… famous problem players, especially those with whom I have been the most acquainted, is just how vital they make themselves to be. They provide story like nobody’s business, take over all those little jobs that nobody wants to do but need to get done. It’s like waking up one day to find out the janitor is actually Stalin.

@Gashlycrumb It could help determine what kind of things future game-runners would want to look out for or prioritise in their behavioural policies, but it’s not going to change the world. It’s like an exit poll, not an election result.

That said some of the results I’m getting so far are a touch on the surprising side. I suspect the most interesting results would be when/if I do a thematic analysis of the long form text answers rather than the numbers – I personally prefer qualitative to quantitative anyway.

@Faraday said in “All the World’s a MUSH”: Genre as Destiny in Collaborative Roleplay Behaviour:

I just think we should be realistic about what a survey like this is (and isn’t) going to tell us.

Indeed, which is why I’ve said as much.

@Pavel said in “All the World’s a MUSH”: Genre as Destiny in Collaborative Roleplay Behaviour:

But so long as everyone treats any results as a “hey isn’t this anecdotally interesting” rather than “we have proof that L&L games literally cause spontaneous combustion” that’s all I really want. It’s just neat to think about these things in a pseudo-empirical way.

ETA: That said, when I say “we should check” I don’t mean “this survey is that check” I meant that checking should be done. Even if we only find some minor correlation based on limited anecdote, that’s more information than we had before, and it’s interesting.

Anyone seeking deep scientific meaning from a google form survey based on a throw away joke on a niche forum is missing the point.

@Faraday said in “All the World’s a MUSH”: Genre as Destiny in Collaborative Roleplay Behaviour:

Little House on the Prairie and Deadwood are both in the “Historical” genre and further in the “Western” sub-genre, but they are wildly different in tone and themes. RDM Battlestar and the original Battlestar are literally set in the same universe/storyline, yet also have very different tones. WoD can be vampires or hunters. Fantasy can be Game of Thrones or Willow.

All true, unfortunately lines have to be drawn vaguely somewhere.

@Faraday said in “All the World’s a MUSH”: Genre as Destiny in Collaborative Roleplay Behaviour:

The way you structure your game absolutely influences player behaviors. But even if you argue that genre influences game structure by popular convention, the structure is still a choice (not directly tied to genre). Feels more like correlation than causation.

Sure, but we won’t know that with any degree of surety if we don’t check. So we should check.

@MisterBoring said in “All the World’s a MUSH”: Genre as Destiny in Collaborative Roleplay Behaviour:

could be merged into one single hypothesis

It’s all a single hypothesis broken down into sub-hypotheses for ease of conversation.

@Aria That WoD bias is something I’m keenly aware of, but honestly when it comes time to report on the info this survey has gathered I think that’s going to be an important point to remember going forward when we, this forum, talk about problems we’re coming at it from a primarily X, Y, or Z-shaped lens so that’s going to skew our responses.

But so long as everyone treats any results as a “hey isn’t this anecdotally interesting” rather than “we have proof that L&L games literally cause spontaneous combustion” that’s all I really want. It’s just neat to think about these things in a pseudo-empirical way.

@Aria To be honest the most surprising thing is that people are replying at all. But I’ve only had the fifteen replies, for which I’m obviously grateful and enthusiastic, but it’s not a very large sample.

I’m not exactly surprised by the result itself, I wouldn’t have the hypotheses otherwise. But so strong a showing does make me concerned I’ve got some bias in the data. Which I do, to be fair, selection bias being the most obvious.

@Aria I mean I’ve only done a tiny analysis on this preliminary data but if I said Kruskal–Wallis H test (H(6) = 16.24, p = .006) would that be exciting enough?

@Aria I was going back and forth on norm internalisation, honestly. While it’s obviously a big part of game culture, and culture in general really, I think that would show up more in data biasing than as a measurable thing at least at this stage.

If I want to do more than satisfy my curiosity and make some very, very broad strokes generalisations (including saying p-value to sound smart), I’d want to do a more qualitative follow up with thematic and/or IPA analysis of answers to longer form questions. Probably in the flavour of an interview of some kind.

Great now I’m thinking about better study design and sampling… If I have to break out SPSS for this, I’m blaming you.

ETA: I’d want a bigger and hopefully more varied sample, regardless. Thus far, 86.7% of respondents answered, “15+ years” for question 1. >_>

@InkGolem Unfortunately, if I were to include every permutation of every genre, I’d still be writing the questions, so I picked the most common genres I’ve seen spoken about.

@Gashlycrumb I’ve got a couple of working sub-hypotheses, but thematic spillover is definitely one I’m tentatively hopeful for. Not that I’m “hopeful” about any being right, but you know what I mean.

For the interested, here are my general hypothetical reasons behind my overall thesis:

Thematic Spillover, where the tone and emotional content of the game world shape how players interact OOC;

Systemic Enabling, where the structure of the game makes certain behaviours easier or more rewarding;

Norm Internalisation, where patterns of behaviour become normalised within a specific community culture;

Demographic Affinity, where different genres attract different types of players with differing tendencies; and

Legacy Culture, where older habits and traditions—both good and bad—are carried over from game to game.

ETA: Obviously this isn’t a super serious research study, results won’t be conclusive or even generalisable (that is to say applicable to a population larger than, but including, the participants). And these hypotheses aren’t the only possible answers, but if I wanted to check every single thought I’ve had on the topic I’d be doing a doctoral study and I don’t hate myself that much.

Loretta Swit, Emmy-winner who played Maj. Houlihan on pioneering series ‘M.A.S.H.,’ has died at 87

@Faraday Alas “it depends” is most often the most firmly valid answer, but I’m trying to go for broad strokes. Unless someone wants to provide a livable stipend for me to do this properly.

@Tez Oh I know, checked yesterday and I was like “oh maybe I should’ve added more larger numbers…”

Hey folks,

Recent discussion has prompted me to take an old idea I’ve had off the backburner for a little exploratory poke: I’m wanting to semi-formally (and slowly) analyse negative behavioural trends in MUing with the ultimate goal of developing resources for staff and players, both present and future, to mitigate these behaviours on games and within themselves.

To that end I’ve written up a little google form survey thing-o that I’d appreciate participation in.

Link Removed, End of Survey

Semi-Obligatory Research Ethics Statement

This survey is part of a casual research project examining how genre influences out-of-character (OOC) behaviour in text-based roleplaying communities such as MUSHes, MUXes, MUDs, and similar environments.

Participation is entirely voluntary. You may skip any question you do not wish to answer and may exit the survey at any time without penalty. No personally identifying information will be collected unless you explicitly choose to provide an email address for follow-up or to receive a summary of results.

Your responses will be kept anonymous and confidential, and any data used in future posts, reports, papers, or publications will be presented in aggregate or with identifying details removed. This survey is not affiliated with any specific game or organisation.

By continuing with the survey, you indicate that you are at least 18 years of age (or the age of majority in your region) and that you understand the nature and purpose of the research.

If you have questions about this study or how your data will be used, you may contact the researcher at: pavel.s.kulikovsky@gmail.com

@Aria said in Echoes of the Past: Problem Players:

But BMD is BMD and will do with a topic as it likes!

I’m just building up to where I can launch my definitive study of behavioural issues sorted by MU genre. I’m thinking ““All the World’s a MUSH”: Genre as Destiny in Collaborative Roleplay Behaviour.”

@InkGolem said in Echoes of the Past: Problem Players:

Seanan McGuire? Really?

Really, really. Find any old WoD MUer and whisper “Seiche” at them to see their reaction. Though, to be frank, she and much of her cadre have long-since departed MUing and, seemingly, have changed as people.

@Juniper said in Echoes of the Past: Problem Players:

I think I’m safe though, because WoD isn’t something I play in.

I think the propensity for reporting this sort of thing from WoD games is mostly selection bias. The predecessors of this kind of board were heavily slanted towards WoD players, so we heard from WoD players about WoD players. I’d wager that this kind of behaviour would be just as prevalent on Star Wars MUDs or furry MUCKs or whatever else, we just don’t hear about it as much because we’re not focused on them.

ETA: I should say it’s selection bias compounded by confirmation bias and availability heuristic (we easily associate it with WoD because there are plenty of examples because there’s so much reporting because we’re historically/traditionally oriented around WoD). Guess who has been writing papers on mental health assessment biases.

… You could have all the names meaning something to do with impermanence: TransitoryFruitBat, HarkingVagrant, GoogleProject.

@dvoraen