Its an old song now, but each time I have felt down this week I have popped it on and it helps me steel myself against the sort of…grinding horror of it all.
https://youtu.be/KYG7-d_Q9zU?si=Rgwyy6EsSwyPE8wd
Sending much love from overseas. Feel your feels…but then organise and resist.
I mean, the fact that they thought, “I want to make a MU!” and three of the top picks on their Rolodex to help them were Polk, Chookitypok and Gailin from Arx is pretty damning.
Whoever this supposedly “fine” head staffer is, it seems like they are fine hiring some pretty questionable staff, as long as the leopards aren’t (yet) eating their face.
So, in conclusion: Stay far, far away from this game is what I am taking away?
Peeve of the day is people relentlessly humblebragging on channels about how important they are at their job.
Should I create my own MU for that?
I think it is really difficult on a game like that. Like…I glanced at it because I like sex as much as the next person, but (happily!) a lot of the canonically LGBT characters I might have wanted to play were already taken.
Under their rules, I think I could take a canonically straight character and gay them up, but that feels weird - especially on a sex-focused game.
Like, if I played the gay Scott Summers and Jean Grey showed up wanting snoo-snoo, I think I would kind of feel duty-bound, especially since they are such an iconic pairing.
Obviously, I would not be, and their rules make that clear, but I think the weight of social expectations would certainly be there, and I would feel like I was taking something away from that other player. Maybe that is a weird hangup only I have.
I am sure it is worse for anyone who would want to play a trans character because I can’t even think of one (granted, I am not a huge comics person).
I do not think it is sufficient to say, “You could play a shapeshifter character, who can be any gender,” because unless the character is also trans, it is not equivalent.
It seems like a really difficult knot that could be easily untangled by allowing OCs.
Agreed! While I get that sometimes someone constantly posing how hot their character is (especially if it is in a very shallow and uninteresting way) can be annoying, it is also very annoying to constantly have an aspect of your character’s backstory or a trait/merit/advantage you spent XP or points or the equivalent on get ‘no sold’ by every PC you run into.
I normally do not struggle too much with the “brain weasels” but walking into an open scene only to have everyone in it check out within a few poses is a special kind of disheartening.
I am rationally certain that it is nothing to do with me and I just happened to walk into a scene that was already trailing off, but it is harder to convince the self destructive demon on my back.
I have realised that from years of playing in WoD MUSHES, I am so conditioned to staff wanting to breathe down people’s necks about every little thing that I get incredibly anxious when I see other people RPing about something my character did—even something super innocent. It brings me out in hives that someone is about to send me a shitty job to tell me I am WRONG and BAD.
I think it is nice that games are a lot more chill these days, but I think it probably speaks volumes about the general state of WoD games that my most comfortable state is to be completely under the staff’s radar because staff on a WoD game paying close attention to what you’re doing is almost universally bad.
(sorry for the late reply to this, it just felt like a big question to answer)
I think there is a mix to be found?
Speaking from my experience as a gay man, I played on a lot of RPI MUDs before I found MUSH games, and many of them would say something like “We allow LGBT characters! We have no rule against it!!” but would leave out the context that the IC world was heavily biased against it and that whenever an LGBT character became known, they would be swiftly murdered in short order, as an example.
TW: Transphobic violence
So, discovering MUSH games which seemed largely to have moved past that was a revelation. I am happy almost every MUSH I have played was happy with me wanting to play a character who represents me, for example. I would not want to play on any game which centred real world themes of racism/homophobia/misogyny and other issues like that, because I ultimately MU as a form of escapism.
If a MU game wanted to incorporate other elements - L&L games for example, almost always deal with issues of classism to some extent, though in a far more high fantasy setting than we might experience day to day. Or a fantasy game where there was a racial prejudice between elves and dwarves, or something. I think for me those are much more deal-able with and tend to be slightly less visceral because there is an added layer of separation.
Obviously as players we all have prejudices and blind spots that we can’t help but bring IC with us, but in terms of my MU games I would generally prefer the common modern prejudices not to be there, even if the world is flawed in other ways.
But then that is also just my subjective feelings on the subject. So someone else might feel differently (and rightly so).
Respectfully, of course I do not mean to say that support for same-sex families is vanishingly rare. That would be a ridiculous thing to say.
What I was saying is that in my (personal, subjective) experience of the genre, I see/have seen very few examples of it actually happening, whether the support is there or not.
Thank you for running an inclusive game. I think all games should be.
It says “The fruit’s flesh is soft and juicy, with a small, edible seed at its center. Technically, the seed is what grants fertility, but the flesh is said to provide for healthy pregnancies and birth.” and also “For a couple to become fertile, both individuals must consume the Evenplum.” so I do assume it is intended to be taken orally, as opposed to a suppository. 
I somewhat agree with you. I was mostly responding to the concern that a lot of people had raised about “The Church” controlling people having babies, and obviously, given the situation in the real world, that is alarming when taken out of context.
So, I wanted to add the context I thought was being missed, but I cannot speak to what was in Spes’ mind when she wrote it.
Point well taken.
There are no pregnancies that would need to be retconned. However, yes, I totally accept the point you made that some other potential RP around the issue might have been impacted.
Thanks for bringing that up.
While I appreciate that fertility and reproduction is a really sensitive topic that I - as a gay cis man who doesn’t like or want children - am not best placed to entirely understand, I think it is worth pointing out there is some added nuance that does seem to have been missed.
I think it is just worth clarifying that since the game opened, the staff have been pretty clear that while sex and romance are fine, they wanted people to hold off on marriage and babies. There have thus far (to my knowledge) been 0 IC marriages and 0 IC pregnancies, so nothing ongoing will have been changed or need to be retconned by this.
Had I been Spes, I would have avoided the phrase “Humans in Ignovis are universally infertile from birth” as my opening sentence on that page, as it is just too emotive. From reading it a few times myself, the takeaway is that “everyone can be fertile if they eat the magic fruit,” so there is no biological bar to anyone having children, if they just eat the fruit.
There has been absolutely no suggestion that the church is going to block anyone from having children. In fact, the accompanying BB post explicitly states that if you are married and want a baby, you can entirely handwave the process and get the fruit as and when you wish it.
In fact, it is worth noting that there is no monolithic “the church” but actually seven separate regional religions and one (largely) atheistic secular administration handling the distribution of the fruits. So you would really have to do a lot to piss off every source of the fruit to the extent it was impossible to get.
I, as the player of an unmarried gay character, specifically raised the point of how my character could have a child if they wanted with Spes, and she was very encouraging. we talked about how my character could adopt if they wished to and how that is very common.
Because this is ultimately a medieval fantasy Lords and Ladies game where everyone is a high-powered member of the nobility, I would (perhaps wrongly) assume most people would understand that kids will generally happen within the context of marriage, which is part of the theme when they sign up for such a game.
So, the only real grey area is quite rare cases, such as an unmarried couple, a female character who wants to be single mum, or a same-sex couple who wants to have a child by surrogacy, as examples. From playing other Lords and Ladies-style games, all of these seem to be vanishingly rare in the genre.
Even in those instances, there is no suggestion that it will be denied or even particularly difficult; you just need to put in a request and talk it through with the staff. The only real concern that Spes has raised in her post is that she doesn’t want anyone to have an unplanned or unwanted child inflicted upon them, so (to me) it just seems like a box-ticking exercise to make sure everyone is consenting in those cases.
As I said before, I appreciate it is a really emotive topic, and people can have a very visceral reaction (and that is not wrong), but those points had not really been brought up, and I did think it was worth bearing them in mind as for me they do somewhat change the character of the policy.
I always find it a bit creepy when it is clear someone has someone else on watch and they start gushing over them on the channel when they log in, but haven’t even ; waved or said ‘hi’ yet.
It also kind of bums me out if I end up logging in day after day and get tumbleweeds, but there is very clearly a group that are friends and treat each other logging on like the second coming of Jesus or something.
Obviously there is nothing objectively wrong with these behaviours and people can say hi to who they want. But, it is a peeves thread and I am allowed to find the behaviour personally irritating, also!
This reminds me of a cartoon thing I once saw called “What British people say Vs what they mean”, which had the example of…
“Oh, by the way…” which actually means “The primary purpose of this conversation is…”
Which, as a British person, I can say is remarkably accurate. It is definitely seen as rude here to come straight into a conversation wanting something without a little small talk first.
Oh maaaaan. An absolute joy in everything she was ever in—total legend.
I remember this performance she gave where she left an empty spotlight for the equally incomparable Gwen Verdon.
https://youtu.be/jpz9pGi9v_0?si=cPent6Dnfc5jSFgq
Hopefully, they will be bringing the house down together again soon in the great hereafter.
Hi there
To clarify, from my point of view (I play Lysander), I put in a job about interviewing those prisoners on 25 October.
From my point of view, I initially ran a scene where Lysander wrote to basically every PC on the game who had a specialism in law or law enforcement, inviting them to take part.
I took all of those people, and then everyone who approached me and asked to be involved, and put them on a great big job, which totalled about 8-9 people.
Unfortunately, there were various delays and such, which meant that it took until now to get the resulting scenes done. Because of the passage of time, a lot of the people who had been on those jobs initially fell off or lost interest, so by the time it came to do it, there were 3 of us.
The three characters could not do the same days, so we ended up doing two scenes on two different days. I did both, but that involved me staying up past 2 am two nights in a row, so I did put in significant effort to attend those scenes.
To the massive credit of Spes, she went around everyone that was online and available on both nights to find other people who might like to join in and participate, with the result that we had extra people at each event.
It certainly was not any attempt to exclude or slight anyone, and anyone that approached Lysander I included on the job. Even other people who wanted to go ahead in a way Lysander disagreed with (wanting to be violent with the prisoners), I did my best to find a way to let that happen for them, and they are going to get a chance to do that.
So, anyone who asked me was included, and I proactively asked everyone who seemed to have a relevant interest in those scenes (law or law enforcement) to get involved. Obviously, if you are playing a character whose main interests are, say…needlepoint or exploring the wilderness and you had not expressed any particular interest, there was no logical reason to invite you to such a scene.
I genuinely do not see what more I could reasonably have done to include people.
There was definitely a long delay with staff being unavailable and then the Christmas break. I will personally say that I am not a great fan of “closed” events being posted publically (I also play on Shattered, where they do that a lot, and I really dislike it). Still, I get it is a useful organisational tool.
I am not sure there is an overarching point I am trying to make. I just wanted to set some facts out from my perspective.
There is a game I am on where I signed up for an event. At the event, was a particular person.
This person, for want of a better word, has a bit of a fan club on this game. People talk about this person a lot; they seem to have a lot of close friends, and people respond super enthusiastically when they do things, log on etc. etc.
I do not begrudge this person any of this, and to be honest, they do not seem to do anything to encourage it. From my point of view they do not do anything to -warrant- it, either. But, I am prepared to accept that is very subjective.
In this event, which was just a one-shot adventure-type thing with some light combat, I ended up nearly walking out part way through because this person’s fan club was so busy gushing over this person and trying to interact with this person that my character was totally ignored.
This happened multiple times, where the rest of the group just played as though my character was not there. As an example, my character did X thing on their turn. I checked it with the GM, rolled for it, it was in my pose. Nobody referenced it in their pose, acknowledged it had happened, or anything like that.
In the next round, this person does a very similar thing (similar enough to the point of being redundant in the circumstances). The rest of the group are falling over themselves to (ic and ooc) tell this person how clever they are, how cool and badass their idea was. Even the GM referenced them doing this thing in their pose, ignoring that my character had already done it.
It’s not a major thing, but man is it irritating. I wasn’t going to mention it, but the talk of cliquey groups brought it all rushing back! I have been kind of light on the details as I don’t dislike any of these people or want them to feel bad. However, if the purpose of the scene is a self-congratulatory, feel-good session with your in-group, maybe don’t paste it as a public event and invite people you’re not really interested in including.