Yeah if the intended message was “people who OOCly wrongfun players for following the literal theme and are a tax on staff with their complaints about how the murder guild murders people and won’t reform” that makes way more sense.
But if you’re a mousey accountant for the murder guild and all you do is launder money and you don’t want to be murdering people but the cops come and don’t have enough fun shooting you in the face because you just lay down and die, I don’t see a problem.
So I’ve been keeping an eye on the GitHub for a bit and was >this< close to opening a thread yesterday about Arx seeming a way out but coming along pretty neat! Very interested to see what you’ve got cooked up.
@Faraday Not really, because PP didn’t HAVE TO get beaten up in the danger pit.
On SH, you can collab offscreen resolution.
Here, PP manipulated MH into an onscreen solution that was theme appropriate for MH, and theme-bendy for PP, that MH wanted to avoid actually. This was not satisfying to MH. (Fine - who cares. I agree this is whatever).
But now PP takes this as some opt-in to a long term, unresolvable grudge which MH actually tried to avoid, that PP uses to shit on anything further MH wants to do that is theme appropriate.
This essentially preys on the OOC empathies of other players which now come into play and start diluting the theme - requiring staff to come in and constantly assure the community that MH is acting in accordance with the theme of Faction X, so please stop DMing each other on discord about what an asshole he is and please stop messaging powerful NPCs to get rid of him.
What were some memorable scenes you’ve had over the years? Silly, emotional, outrageously boring, frustrating beyond all reason - I dunno. All of it and more!
Give a little synopsis of what went down and then say a few words about what made it memorable for you.
@Yam said in RP Safari - Pacing Styles:
What about you? What pace do you like and why?
Nothing beats live RP momentum and immediate character reaction.
I struggle with the yo-yo effect of Async and ultimately find I can’t get back into the scene mentally. It takes the spontaneous nature of RP out of the equation and I feel like that spontaneity is part and parcel in what makes RP special for me.
Also, acting “as” the character is important for me in RP. I can’t do that with async where I’m the character for a pose a day, or whatever the pacing is.
And maybe that’s the actual distinction: I RP to “act”, not to “write”.
Oh no my what about my hog pit nostalgia
@bear_necessities said in Does Anyone Even Care?:
What’s stopping you from being a stay to the end person? Or, alternatively, what makes/made you a stay to the end person?
I am a “stay until it stops being fun person”.
When the something-other-than-fun to fun ratio tips to a certain amount, I leave.
There are a million factors involved in that, and honestly a game runner couldn’t hope to manage them all. I don’t expect them to try.
Just run a good game, try to keep it as interesting as you can, and if you need help, find smart people of proven skill to help you keep the players engaged. Have a clearly defined code of conduct for your game and be fair, public and predictable in how you enforce it.
Beyond that, there’s not much you can do. Of the games I’ve left, few were because I didn’t like how the game was run or the community. I lose interest in playing my own character and that’s mostly on me and my willingness and/or availability to breathe life into an idea that is only entertaining and not otherwise contributive to my existence on this planet.
@Roz said in Scenes within Scenes:
@Roadspike said in Scenes within Scenes:
I think that -in general- places code is trying to police a social problem (players having their characters react to things their characters shouldn’t be able to hear) with a code solution (making it so players can’t hear some of what’s said). And I’m generally not in favor of that.
that reasoning has honestly never occurred to me. for me, places/tt has always been about making large scenes more manageable by reducing the overall spam levels.
That reasoning has definitely occurred to me and is fully legitimate as a reasoning because - well - not everyone can control themselves when there’s tea / a great pun opportunity / or a fantastic ‘that’s what she said!’ just hanging there for the taking.
But the real purpose of table talk is to isolate the inane peanut gallery chatter from the actual important shit going on.
And also to make mostly one-way scenes (such as sermons, lectures, ceremonies, giant meetings and concerts) less boring.
You have to walk them through the absurdity of their actions, framing each rung of their decision ladder in the most ridiculous way possible, as a “just double checking…” that’s what their character would actually do.
@Ashkuri Oh. I’ve usually experienced this in contexts where I wasn’t even questioning the would-doingness of the character in the first place….
…not until the player themself brought it up, that is…
You have to walk them through the absurdity of their actions, framing each rung of their decision ladder in the most ridiculous way possible, as a “just double checking…” that’s what their character would actually do.
@MisterBoring said in Non-toxic PvP:
Also, if you approach IC conflict in a fully RP MU (so a MUSH or MUX or whatever) as though it’s a round of all slappers in Goldeneye, I would suggest that you’re in the wrong place and would better be served by a PvP MUD.
I promise you I am in the right place lol.
Also - my bros and I never demanded no contact orders from our parents after a round of GoldenEye slappers. So maybe we had it right after all?
@Kestrel said in Non-toxic PvP:
There are players who enjoy playing weird little gremlins or satirical characters they see as totally separate from themselves, where they get to have fun at that character’s expense.
This is me.
@Kestrel said in Non-toxic PvP:
…is basically a service you’re providing other players…
you’re welcome.
Yeah I agree. “CvC” just comes across to me as spin.
My understanding of PvP was already that our characters duke it out IC, not that I’m literally attacking players.
When I used to play GoldenEye 007 with my buddies on the good old Nintendo 64 and we put that shit on PvP mode we didn’t actually start shooting each other up with golden guns. And Nintendo didn’t have to come down and be like, “Nah bros, chill! It’s CvC!!!”
(Though we did talk shit plenty and accuse the other of cheating all the time or having a better controller. But what’s wrong with that?)
I don’t think using the term “PvP” for decades contributes to the problems we’re discussing, and I don’t think changing it to “CvC” solves any of the problems we’re discussing.
Hell - when your team is losing a football game a common refrain is that the referees rigged it. I don’t know what to say. Losing is going to result in salty balls some times. You should see my cousins play Uno.
@Faraday said in Non-toxic PvP:
This whole thing, by the way, is emblematic of why I don’t think PVP can ever be done in a constructive way among strangers on the internet.
I mean it’s inherently a YMMV proposition no matter how you work it. Personally, PVP with strangers works fine and constructively for me ¯_(ツ)_/¯ so long as those strangers are opted-in and on the same page about what game we are playing.
@Faraday Not really, because PP didn’t HAVE TO get beaten up in the danger pit.
On SH, you can collab offscreen resolution.
Here, PP manipulated MH into an onscreen solution that was theme appropriate for MH, and theme-bendy for PP, that MH wanted to avoid actually. This was not satisfying to MH. (Fine - who cares. I agree this is whatever).
But now PP takes this as some opt-in to a long term, unresolvable grudge which MH actually tried to avoid, that PP uses to shit on anything further MH wants to do that is theme appropriate.
This essentially preys on the OOC empathies of other players which now come into play and start diluting the theme - requiring staff to come in and constantly assure the community that MH is acting in accordance with the theme of Faction X, so please stop DMing each other on discord about what an asshole he is and please stop messaging powerful NPCs to get rid of him.
@Jumpscare said in Non-toxic PvP:
…but PP now uses it as ammunition to ICly derail anything MH tries to talk about afterwards.
Okay I think -this- is the actual crux of the issue, then, and I agree it is very not okay.
@Juniper Yes. What I’m meaning to point out is that the opposite unsatisfying situation is allowed and common: Murder Bro senselessly ramping up conflict with pacifist who joined the correct faction. Being threatening over petty slights to brand newbies who haven’t even joined a faction yet also happens and is treated IC and all part of the story and we work through it.
I don’t see how those can stand but being manipulative in the way illustrated in a high conflict faction can’t?
Again - if this is all about OOC nattering then fine, I get it and it makes sense. But it does seem like she is targeting the IC action itself in her example, whereas I think it’s a skill issue on McGuffin Holder’s part they can’t think their way through it and have to complain to staff.
Yeah. I’m not trying to be dense but I don’t see this as rising to the level of zero tolerance and inherently toxic.
On SH there is plenty of the opposite and arguably worse:
Low XP cafe worker: <very mild joke>
SuperStat McFighty who Never Takes Shit From No One: OMG WHAT DID YOU SAY?! I’M GOING TO STAB YOU!!!
And some of that is funny but a lot of it is eye roll inducing.
And the best defense is:
Low xp cafe worker: Okay come stab me quick then because I got shit to do today.
So honestly I think some weaponized ‘not gunna fight you’ balances things out.
I don’t think you can tolerate it one way and not the other. Many times the only way to defend against Big McFightster or UnChecked EgoBro is going to be removing any satisfaction in having beef with you.
Yeah if the intended message was “people who OOCly wrongfun players for following the literal theme and are a tax on staff with their complaints about how the murder guild murders people and won’t reform” that makes way more sense.
But if you’re a mousey accountant for the murder guild and all you do is launder money and you don’t want to be murdering people but the cops come and don’t have enough fun shooting you in the face because you just lay down and die, I don’t see a problem.